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Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

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221–230 of 238 posts

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#221
post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Taleb wrote at long on the election models. TL;DR: A proper statistical analysis should have given around even odds (50:50), not 98:2. "So back to the mechanism of the model, Taleb imposes a no-arbitrage condition (borrowed from options pricing) to impose time-varying consistency on the Brier score. This is a similar concept to financial options, where you can go bankrupt or make money even before the final event. In…

People should be cautious when citing Taleb as an absolute authority. He envisions himself as an anti-intellectual, and doesn't mind talking out of his rear. I enjoyed his book Fooled by Randomness, but he repeatedly bashed "journalists" throughout---maybe an early indicator of the "fake news" movement even among those who should know better. Anyone who proposed 98% certainty was ridiculous and should not be taken se…

> A forecast should go bankrupt before it gets to the final event, what?

Can go bankrupt, not should.

He is saying that if in finance someone would make such a ridiculous forecast, his forecast would be shorted into oblivion and he would have lost most of the money bet on the forecast before the event even took place.

Imagine two relatively matched football teams, but a bookie offering 10:1 bets on one of them. There would have been massive bets against that bookie.

Given the recent history of american elections and other factors, a 50:50 prediction is much more sensible than a 98:2 one. But because journalists don't actually put money on their predictions, they can spout whatever numbers.

He is also complaining that even with a lot of polls hovering around 50%-50%, that 98%-2% prediction was still on, which doesn't really make any (math) sense (binary options, delta, ...).

In his math paper he describes this in more precise form.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#222
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For hacker news I expect people to be a lot smarter but apparently no one in the entire thread realized I said Tulipmania. Not Tulips. Yes, and then you went and compared the tulip mania against the entire history of Bitcoin . The current orgy of speculation and people taking out mortgages to buy Bitcoin is a recent phenomenon.

This is like me talking about dollars and you go "paper has existed for much longer than dollars". This is why I (almost) never comment online. Too many idiots posing as experts.

Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? If you want to comment here you need to do so more thoughtfully.

https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fiat currencies are still reasonably stable compared to actual goods right now. I know that can and has changed in the past (pre/post WWII germany), but at the moment, they are not in a bubble. Not at the same level that bitcoin is, anyway. How do I know this? Well, because I can still get a gallon of milk or loaf of bread for ~$3. If I put that $3 into bitcoin, I'd get some fraction of a coin (roughly 0.0001). Which…

Just a comment to chime in with some interesting info. QE in the UK seems to have actually kicked into the inflation cycle. Commodity prices (butter was a big one, if I remember correctly, at >20% yoy) have been jumping alongside service costs (insurance). I'm sure that Brexit is _some_ sort of variable in this equation but I won't pretend to make heads or tails of how beyond that inflation is in fact happening in so…

To answer your intuition: QE is trickling up into asset price inflation.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#224
Yes, it's a bubble but we've never had one where the whole world can be, and is, involved. This can go on for years before it falls. The key , for it to continue, is to make it VERY EASY for people to buy and sell. Once that's in place who knows when it will stop. All the naysayers can't see that.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#225
post #222
post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is like me talking about dollars and you go "paper has existed for much longer than dollars". This is why I (almost) never comment online. Too many idiots posing as experts.

Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? If you want to comment here you need to do so more thoughtfully. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If people are being stupid I'm gonna call them stupid.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#226
post #225
post #222

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Would you please stop breaking the HN guidelines? If you want to comment here you need to do so more thoughtfully. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

If people are being stupid I'm gonna call them stupid.

Ok, since you don't seem to want to use the site as intended, I've banned the account. If you change your mind you're welcome to let us know at hn@ycombinator.com.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#228
post #136

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because bitcoin and tulips have nothing in common? Bitcoin is a commodity, tulips are a commodity. Tulips went through a particular phase of hype with a famous bubble (and crash). It's not irrational to look at bitcoin through that lens. Bitcoin might be new tech, but commodity markets and the human psychology and greed that drive them are old as dirt. Those who ignore history are doomed to repeat it.

In my understanding, bitcoin and its supporting technology is a monetary system. So, in my opinion, comparing bitcoins with tulips will be similar to comparing Fractional Reserve Banking with tulips.

In analyzing this, it doesn't matter what something purports to be, it matters what it is actually used as. By and large bitcoin is a digital commodity, not a currency. That may well change in the future, but that's not relevant to the analysis.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#229
post #82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If there's 1 thing I've learned in the past 2 years, it's that experts can be deadly wrong But most of the time, they are in fact right. I don't know why a couple instances of wrong-ness proves that experts are unreliable. Other than selection/confirmation bias.

Your reasoning is an example of failing to understand the difference between a random variable and an exposure to a random variable. Experts are almost always right when the outcome is irrelevant. Economists can accurately predict next year's GDP growth most of time, sure. Except that time they're all somehow wrong at the same time and it's a massive miss and we enter a recession. This is really the only time we care…

Sounds like reverse survival bias to me. Experts are usually right, so people make financial decisions on that basis. When it turns out the experts were wrong, those decisions don't pan out. The worse the outcome, the more likely we are to hear about it. We don't hear about all the times that following expert advice doesn't lead to an economic disaster, even though it happens nearly every day.

Re: Is Bitcoin a Bubble? Economists Say ‘Yes’

#230
post #221

Earlier quoted context omitted.

People should be cautious when citing Taleb as an absolute authority. He envisions himself as an anti-intellectual, and doesn't mind talking out of his rear. I enjoyed his book Fooled by Randomness, but he repeatedly bashed "journalists" throughout---maybe an early indicator of the "fake news" movement even among those who should know better. Anyone who proposed 98% certainty was ridiculous and should not be taken se…

> A forecast should go bankrupt before it gets to the final event, what? Can go bankrupt, not should. He is saying that if in finance someone would make such a ridiculous forecast, his forecast would be shorted into oblivion and he would have lost most of the money bet on the forecast before the event even took place. Imagine two relatively matched football teams, but a bookie offering 10:1 bets on one of them. There…

I don't think any of this explains the jargon in that paragraph from the paper, which is what I questioning. And Nate Silver didn't have a 98:2 forecast.

If I make a bad bet I don't go "bankrupt" or lose that money before the event happens. There's more than one way to structure betting on events than the way he proposes as well, so I still don't understand why his is an authoritative take.

"Given the recent history ... and other factors" is more of an explanation for why someone thought it was a coinflip, but doesn't represent "a proper statistical analysis" modeling 50:50.

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