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The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

money.cnn.com

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Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#31

Post by thejayray »

humanrebar wrote: post #21
black_puppydog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area"). But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

> "safe area" This means "I can leave my teenagers there without worrying". Malls have private security. They can (and do) escort people out who are doing things that are bad for business. That includes all sorts of things that are legal (and should be legal!) but aren't appropriate in that context. Other things are illegal but impossible to eliminate from public life (and public parks). Many of those things are thin…

There are some places, however, that are starting to put restrictions around minors in Malls at given times of day. The article mentions Simon Property Managment and I think that company now disallows anyone under 18 within their malls after 5pm, Friday through Sunday. This seems even stranger to me because of the foot traffic and disposable income of many minors; feels like a target demographic that the malls are shunning, then complaining about lower amounts of foot traffic.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#32

Post by flyinghamster »

jasode wrote: post #20
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

>are people upset In general, people in America really aren't upset about the trend of dying malls. They just choose to shop elsewhere such as the newer open-air shopping centers or online places line Amazon. The resulting decline of malls is just collateral damage and most have no emotional attachment about it. (Note that the CNN article isn't reporting on any sentiments about it. It's just relaying the economic rea…

> the newer open-air shopping centers

The Circle of Fashion has been completed. The early, 1950s-era malls were outdoor. In the Chicago area, at least two of them survive to this day (Oakbrook Center and Old Orchard). Park Forest Plaza didn't fare so well after the enclosed Lincoln Mall opened in 1973 a few miles west in Matteson.

Now, though, Lincoln Mall has been demolished except for the Carson Pirie Scott store, which was made freestanding.

Over in Orland Park, in the wake of enclosed Orland Square's success, a second enclosed mall was built just to the south. It was not a success, and it was eventually turned inside out as a sort of double-sided strip mall, which now thrives.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#33

Post by csydas »

wil421 wrote: post #28
black_puppydog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area"). But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

I’m going to clear this up really quick because what OP said was extremely weird. People do not go to malls for AC and I live in the Deep South where it humid as hell. Safe Area is a weird choice of words. I guess it means parents can drop kids off at a place that has decent rent a cops. Generally keeping kids safe from themselves or weirdos I presume. My parents would’ve never said I like dropping my kids at the mal…

Well, just saying how it was where I grew up in the Midwest. Air Conditioning was not standard in many of the older houses and when there was a heatwave, people would go to malls/movie theaters and relax there because the buildings were publicly accessible, had stuff to do to kill time, and were climate controlled. I know that 102F and 99% humidity is par for the course down South, but, you know we Northerners just don't really handle that the same way. I remember during heat waves growing up that the local news stations and the city would advise going to places where there is air-conditioning if you didn't have AC.

As for safe, again, maybe just different up north, but it's absolutely common to just give your kid $20-$40 go to the mall to hang out with friends or to kill time shopping, or at an arcade (for the few that still have one), or to go to a movie at the mall or whatever. The security tends to be pretty strict. One of the malls where I grew up had such strict security they wouldn't let minors in without guardian being present). The adult would go shopping or grab lunch or read, the kids would run off and do whatever.

So, sorry that our experiences don't mesh, but it absolutely did happen. Here's a video from Anaheim Fire and Rescue recommending that people go to the mall during a heat wave: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=msk2Qd4TkJs

Edit: added clarity to last sentence

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#34

Post by mattbrewsbytes »

tyu100 wrote: post #17

Content-free catastrophe clickbait like this is likely a good indicator that the mall-closing phenomenon in the states has peaked. Lots of the retail stores in trouble were victims of high debt loads from private equity buyouts rather than major competition from online shopping. Almost all of the major retail chains are now very competitive in online and mixed online/in-person shopping models and mall operators are r…

The other element is restaurants, I've noticed malls that have name brand chain restaurants always seem busy.

People will go out to eat, and since they are there do some shopping. There are still things that are better buying in person rather than getting something shipped, not liking it, shipping it back, etc.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#35

Post by flyinghamster »

jlebrech wrote: post #29

they need more arcades, plenty of opportunity for full 4k gaming and vr experiences that would be too expensive for many in the home.

A lot of malls started kicking out the arcades in the early 1990s, assuming they had them in the first place.

Then they started kicking out the kids completely, and act surprised when they don't return after reaching adulthood.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#36

Post by nkrisc »

distances wrote: post #24
randomerr wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the US, malls have been fighting that trend. Until recently they saw those stores as a cancer. Grocery stores and work-out locations would 'push out' the high dollar customers. Of course the internet is taking away those high dollar customers so the malls need those stores now. I stay away from the big local mall because of the lack of security. Also 2/3's of the mall are women's clothing stores. There nothing rea…

What do you mean by lack of security? Do you feel you're in danger of being robbed in a mall ?

Probably in the parking lot.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#37

Post by gbacon »

wil421 wrote: post #28
black_puppydog wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area"). But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

I’m going to clear this up really quick because what OP said was extremely weird. People do not go to malls for AC and I live in the Deep South where it humid as hell. Safe Area is a weird choice of words. I guess it means parents can drop kids off at a place that has decent rent a cops. Generally keeping kids safe from themselves or weirdos I presume. My parents would’ve never said I like dropping my kids at the mal…

They would have said you can go to the mall and stay out of trouble, which means the same thing.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#39

Post by gbacon »

black_puppydog wrote: post #14
tomalpha wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an interesting question. How is a mall closing a problem provided that people are still buying things, albeit from a different company to the one they bought from before? If money continues to move around the system, surely this is something that looks like an economic indicator, but is really more of a cultural shift. (Separately there could well be economic problems with the decline of manufacturing etc.). A…

that last bit is what prompted my question. crydas' and mseebach's answers make a good point that for some reasons, malls in the US started taking on other roles than just the places of exchange for everyday goods. so from that perspective, if malls fail, those roles need to be filled by some other entity.

It’s a sentimental attachment for Gen Xers.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#40

Post by bunderbunder »

tomalpha wrote: post #11
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

That's an interesting question. How is a mall closing a problem provided that people are still buying things, albeit from a different company to the one they bought from before? If money continues to move around the system, surely this is something that looks like an economic indicator, but is really more of a cultural shift. (Separately there could well be economic problems with the decline of manufacturing etc.). A…

Not just the psyche, the landscape, too. Many US towns are so sprawled out that the mall was the only thing they had for public space.

When the local mall closes, a bunch of people who've spent much of the past decade sitting on their couches, and aren't necessarily happy about that situation, realize that this is probably how they're going to be spending the next decade, too.

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