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The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

money.cnn.com

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Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#21

Post by humanrebar »

black_puppydog wrote: post #12
csydas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly the former probably, but for many it's the latter as well. Malls historically were a central gathering point where many people burnt an entire day just shopping around, grabbing lunch at the food court, and just in general "hanging out". It's where the term Mallrat (and the move _Mallrats_) gets their naming from. In more recent years it's not as important and the day trips probably aren't there, but many stil…

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area"). But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

> "safe area"

This means "I can leave my teenagers there without worrying". Malls have private security. They can (and do) escort people out who are doing things that are bad for business. That includes all sorts of things that are legal (and should be legal!) but aren't appropriate in that context. Other things are illegal but impossible to eliminate from public life (and public parks). Many of those things are things you'd worry about your teenager being around.

Like public drinking. Drug use (legal and not). Misdemeanor violence. Sexual harassment from random citizens (creepy middle aged people with panel vans). Public sexual conduct (sex in the bushes or in the bathroom stall).

In other words, "safe area" is code for "free low-grade babysitting".

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#22

Post by vanpeebles »

mseebach wrote: post #9
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

Malls have roughly the same function as "main streets" do in European towns - a relatively neutral public space - and I suspect the worry for their demise is largely the same as the worry for the demise of the main street in Europe.

The difference with malls is they are private businesses (and private property) so there are many restrictions to what the public could otherwise lawfully do on a Main Street (parades, festivals or demonstrations) - that is without express permission from the property owner.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#23

Post by reustle »

lawn wrote: post #16
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

When I visited Malaysia earlier this year I asked on of the residents there what's the deal with malls there. She said it was the place all the kids went to when their parents kicked them out (don't watch tv all day!) because they had aircondition. There was a social component as well.

I think this is the case around a lot of SE asia. Bangkok has plenty of massive shopping malls, and they're very often busy. It's a great place to hang out when it's 34 degrees out at 80% humidity :)

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#24

Post by distances »

randomerr wrote: post #8
zinckiwi wrote: post #6

In New Zealand and Australia (and I'm sure many other places, but those are the ones I know first-hand) malls also feature supermarkets, post offices, and banks. They're designed to be a destination for not just "recreational" shopping but day-to-day errands. Always missed that when in US malls, and apparently they're still not cottoning on.

In the US, malls have been fighting that trend. Until recently they saw those stores as a cancer. Grocery stores and work-out locations would 'push out' the high dollar customers. Of course the internet is taking away those high dollar customers so the malls need those stores now. I stay away from the big local mall because of the lack of security. Also 2/3's of the mall are women's clothing stores. There nothing rea…

What do you mean by lack of security? Do you feel you're in danger of being robbed in a mall?

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#25

Post by wyclif »

reustle wrote: post #23
lawn wrote: post #16

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When I visited Malaysia earlier this year I asked on of the residents there what's the deal with malls there. She said it was the place all the kids went to when their parents kicked them out (don't watch tv all day!) because they had aircondition. There was a social component as well.

I think this is the case around a lot of SE asia. Bangkok has plenty of massive shopping malls, and they're very often busy. It's a great place to hang out when it's 34 degrees out at 80% humidity :)

Definitely a SE Asia thing. Malls in Asia are closer to amusement parks with shopping than straight retail with a cineplex attached. In the Philippines the SM mall chain, run by the Sy family from China, is still on the upswing with no end in sight. Always busy on nights and weekends, and filled with kids hanging out because it's so damned hot and humid outside all the time (and the average age in the Philippines is 23).

Another factor in SE Asia is that most people (esp. young people) do not make purchases with credit cards like they do in the US and which makes Amazon's dominance assured and hastens the decline of malls. Mobile is huge, and mobile payments and cash are still king. Lazada is big in the Philippines because they accept mobile payments, e-wallet funds, and COD.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#26

Post by distances »

vanpeebles wrote: post #22
mseebach wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Malls have roughly the same function as "main streets" do in European towns - a relatively neutral public space - and I suspect the worry for their demise is largely the same as the worry for the demise of the main street in Europe.

The difference with malls is they are private businesses (and private property) so there are many restrictions to what the public could otherwise lawfully do on a Main Street (parades, festivals or demonstrations) - that is without express permission from the property owner.

Plus, cities are thriving so main streets are not going anywhere -- the shops probably change to reflect the online shopping trends though. More cafés, definitely.

Small town main streets are going away sure, but those towns are slowly emptying anyway.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#27

Post by amorphid »

randomerr wrote: post #13
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

Nostalgia and community. It was the one place 2-3 generation would gather at for events and shopping. As these break up and go away we see our childhood and teens go away with them. Finally its blight. These empty husks tend to take the surrounding communities down with them. It can take decades to get them either resold or at least demolished. They invite homeless people and gangs. There's an abandoned mall in Cleve…

That sounds right. My family and I used to go to the mall every Monday night to grab food at hang out. I'd always hit up the book stores, game stores, and electronics stores.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#28

Post by wil421 »

black_puppydog wrote: post #12
csydas wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mostly the former probably, but for many it's the latter as well. Malls historically were a central gathering point where many people burnt an entire day just shopping around, grabbing lunch at the food court, and just in general "hanging out". It's where the term Mallrat (and the move _Mallrats_) gets their naming from. In more recent years it's not as important and the day trips probably aren't there, but many stil…

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area"). But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

I’m going to clear this up really quick because what OP said was extremely weird. People do not go to malls for AC and I live in the Deep South where it humid as hell.

Safe Area is a weird choice of words. I guess it means parents can drop kids off at a place that has decent rent a cops. Generally keeping kids safe from themselves or weirdos I presume. My parents would’ve never said I like dropping my kids at the mall because it’s safe.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#30

Post by bhouston »

tyu100 wrote: post #17

Content-free catastrophe clickbait like this is likely a good indicator that the mall-closing phenomenon in the states has peaked. Lots of the retail stores in trouble were victims of high debt loads from private equity buyouts rather than major competition from online shopping. Almost all of the major retail chains are now very competitive in online and mixed online/in-person shopping models and mall operators are r…

Amazon's phenomenal and huge growth is not coming from no where. There will be significant casualties.

https://ei.marketwatch.com/Multimedia/2017/01/19/Photos/ZH/M...

> major retail chains are now very competitive in online

If that was the case Amazon wouldn't have this type of growth.

One just has to watch out for direct Chinese marketplace apps like Wish and AliExpress getting more North American market and cutting out Amazon's system. Basically Amazon can be disrupted itself, at least to a degree, when it is nearly filled with Chinese source goods.

North American B&M retailers are mostly screwed. This article on CNN isn't wrong.

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