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The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

money.cnn.com

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Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#11

Post by tomalpha »

black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

That's an interesting question. How is a mall closing a problem provided that people are still buying things, albeit from a different company to the one they bought from before?

If money continues to move around the system, surely this is something that looks like an economic indicator, but is really more of a cultural shift. (Separately there could well be economic problems with the decline of manufacturing etc.).

Are shopping malls somehow deeply rooted in the American psyche? Watching US movies from the 80's and 90's might suggest that they are...

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#12

Post by black_puppydog »

csydas wrote: post #10
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

Mostly the former probably, but for many it's the latter as well. Malls historically were a central gathering point where many people burnt an entire day just shopping around, grabbing lunch at the food court, and just in general "hanging out". It's where the term Mallrat (and the move _Mallrats_) gets their naming from. In more recent years it's not as important and the day trips probably aren't there, but many stil…

To me, a lot of these functions seem like things that could easily be available to the individual (like AC) or should be provided to the general public, not just in malls (like being a "safe area").

But thank you, that does clarify it indeed. :)

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#13

Post by randomerr »

black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

Nostalgia and community. It was the one place 2-3 generation would gather at for events and shopping. As these break up and go away we see our childhood and teens go away with them. Finally its blight.

These empty husks tend to take the surrounding communities down with them. It can take decades to get them either resold or at least demolished. They invite homeless people and gangs. There's an abandoned mall in Cleveland, Oh that usually has about 4 bodies found in it a year. But its stuck in court because the city doesn't want to take on cost of back taxes.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#14

Post by black_puppydog »

tomalpha wrote: post #11
black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

That's an interesting question. How is a mall closing a problem provided that people are still buying things, albeit from a different company to the one they bought from before? If money continues to move around the system, surely this is something that looks like an economic indicator, but is really more of a cultural shift. (Separately there could well be economic problems with the decline of manufacturing etc.). A…

that last bit is what prompted my question.

crydas' and mseebach's answers make a good point that for some reasons, malls in the US started taking on other roles than just the places of exchange for everyday goods. so from that perspective, if malls fail, those roles need to be filled by some other entity.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#15

Post by randomerr »

Fifer82 wrote: post #5

Dan Bell's Dead Mall Series is oddly depressing and he often gives some back story into their declines. https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLNz4Un92pGNxQ9vNgmnCx... A common theme appears to be either struggling footfall or the fact that what I guess are major US anchor stores (Maceys, Sears, KMart) going through tough times. Once the anchors move out, it becomes difficult to run the mall. Interestingly, in one vi…

I love the series. I notice also in the series an anchors space would often be subdivided into 10' x 20' vendor areas. that way small community businesses could sell their goods for very little overhead.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#16

Post by lawn »

black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

When I visited Malaysia earlier this year I asked on of the residents there what's the deal with malls there.

She said it was the place all the kids went to when their parents kicked them out (don't watch tv all day!) because they had aircondition. There was a social component as well.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#17

Post by tyu100 »

Content-free catastrophe clickbait like this is likely a good indicator that the mall-closing phenomenon in the states has peaked.

Lots of the retail stores in trouble were victims of high debt loads from private equity buyouts rather than major competition from online shopping.

Almost all of the major retail chains are now very competitive in online and mixed online/in-person shopping models and mall operators are re-tooling malls with a mix of retail and experiential stores and even governmental and professional services.

Even Sears looks like it might survive in some form and smart observers like Scott Galloway think its more likely than not that Amazon will buy a major department store soon to keep up with the Walmarts and Best Buy's that have effective physical footprints.

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#19

Post by ethftw »

djsumdog wrote: post #2

Someone told me about a mall in Cincinnati that was now a ghost town. I visited it a few months ago and it's surreal. Over half the storefronts have blacked out windows. Almost all the remaining stores have all conglomerated on one side of the building. I was pretty shocked when I saw my favourite body jewelry store was still there. I bought some earrings.

You have a link?

Re: The worst is yet to come for American shopping malls

#20

Post by jasode »

black_puppydog wrote: post #4

Maybe someone from the US can clarify this for me: are people upset about this as an indicator for the economic changes happening at the moment, or are they genuinely concerned about the malls themselves? Never having left Europe myself, I could relate to the former, but not to the latter. What makes those malls so... relevant?

>are people upset

In general, people in America really aren't upset about the trend of dying malls. They just choose to shop elsewhere such as the newer open-air shopping centers or online places line Amazon. The resulting decline of malls is just collateral damage and most have no emotional attachment about it. (Note that the CNN article isn't reporting on any sentiments about it. It's just relaying the economic reality that more stores are closing which lead to more dead malls.)

Also, suburban malls have been in decline since the mid 1980s long before Amazon came on the scene. Amazon is just accelerating the decline.

>What makes those malls so... relevant?

They're less relevant now but malls were a phenomenon in the USA because of cars and cheap suburban land away from city downtowns. Before the World Wars, Americans shopped in downtown "main streets".[1] The rise of car ownership by middle-class families in the 1950s enabled suburban single-family homes which fueled the rise of the malls.

[1] https://www.google.com/search?biw=1312&bih=1423&tbm=isch&q=d...

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