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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#201

Post by _m8fo »

Retric wrote: post #196
leongrado wrote: post #174

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Completely agree. The kids who wanted to do well always learned the material no matter how boring the material was taught and the kids who didn't want to learn didn't learn a thing even with the most engaging teacher. Teachers can only do so much.

Kids are not so binary. Plenty of schools have random assignment for students yet teacher A's students vastly outperform teacher B's students. Sure, the best student in B is generally better than the worst student in A but they are still generally behind the best in A.

Do you have any research to back this up? I'm curious.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#202

Post by aaimnr »

rejschaap wrote: post #47
jacquesm wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Phones tend to be distraction machines, books much less so.

Books are distraction machines on a different level. When I become immersed in books I tend to deprive myself of sleep, neglect my daily chores and procrastinate my work. I do feel much better about periods where I read a lot, otherwise I tend to incessantly grab my phone to check blogs, news sites and stock/crypto prices.

Books are not distraction machines in the sense phones are. Book may be a distraction from something else, but when you are already reading a book, you are concentrated, attention is stable and all cognitive faculties are being trained in positive direction (keeping the whole story in mind, imagining the plot etc.). Phones, on the other hand, are distracting you while you are interacting with them. Attention is switching constantly between apps, even within a single app you may be constantly swiping through content in order to get gratification. In this mode you're UNLEARNING the stability of attention, that books help develop. There may be specific apps and games that cultivate concentration as well, but the way the average kid uses their phone is definitively detrimental to their mental capabilities.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#203

Post by shak77 »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #165
avip wrote: post #29

Sounds like pure common sense to me. Schools are implicitly responsible for the overall well-being of kids. Many schools ban smoking, sugary snacks/drinks, some dressing style (or non-dressing), makeup. Many parents would love to send their kids to schools without a phone, this will empower and support them.

Why did I had to scroll that far to finally find someone talking about the parents ! (or maybe I missed it) For me I find it astonishing that state have to make laws for common sense. When did it made sense to parents to let their kids go to school with a tool known for its distraction impact ? Some years ago, would you have send your kids to school with a portable tv ? The lack of parent education and common sense i…

>When did it made sense to parents to let their kids go to school with a tool known for its distraction impact ?

What makes you think parents are responsible? Most of the time they are even less responsible than their children.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#204

Post by dragonwriter »

CivBase wrote: post #199
dpeck wrote: post #167

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Public school is a function/instrument of the state, isn’t it?

Public schools are owned and operated by the state, but that doesn't mean their policies are managed and enforced at a state level. I agree that this policy is a good one, but I don't think should be enforced by the school. I'm not an educator, but if I were I don't think I'd be happy about forfeiting my policy control to a government official. How would a law like this even be enforced? Are teachers expected to take…

> I agree that this policy is a good one, but I don't think should be enforced by the school. I'm not an educator, but if I were I don't think I'd be happy about forfeiting my policy control to a government official.

Educators in public schools are government officials.

> How would a law like this even be enforced?

Laws and policies prohibiting objects in schools are common, and typically enforced through confiscation when the offending item is observed; whether after that the item is forefeited, returned to parents, or has some other disposition , and whether there is subsequently legal proceeding or additional penalty, varies considerably but is generally peripheral to primary enforcement.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#205

Post by TheCoelacanth »

watwut wrote: post #112
dazc wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'why ban them during breaks...' School isn't just about academic study, it's also where you make friends and learn how to interact with others. I think mobile phones get in the way of this by enabling kids to just communicate within already established cliques?

Yeah, let's make it even harder for lonely kids. I mean seriosly, why do highly social people have so little empathy for introverted ones?

As an introverted person, spending more time alone as a child was the last thing I needed. There were a lot of social skills that I didn't develop until my mid-to-late twenties that would have saved me a lot of grief if I had been pushed into developing them earlier in life.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#206

Post by craftyguy »

sridca wrote: post #193
eigenschwarz wrote: post #186

The scary thing about smartphones is how they might be permanently changing adolescent and teenage brains, and not in a good way. Checking texts and emails, surfing the internet for information, and yes - even sites like HN and reddit - cause a dopamine surge in the brain that can lead to so-called 'dopamine loops' [1]. In such a crucial part of brain development, my fear is we are turning kids into the equivalent of…

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

I believe my parents said their parents told them same thing about TVs, and their parents parents told them radios, and so on.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#207

Post by wccrawford »

sridca wrote: post #193
eigenschwarz wrote: post #186

The scary thing about smartphones is how they might be permanently changing adolescent and teenage brains, and not in a good way. Checking texts and emails, surfing the internet for information, and yes - even sites like HN and reddit - cause a dopamine surge in the brain that can lead to so-called 'dopamine loops' [1]. In such a crucial part of brain development, my fear is we are turning kids into the equivalent of…

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

And Television. And Radio. And tons of other things over the years. They aren't going away.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#208

Post by eigenschwarz »

sridca wrote: post #193
eigenschwarz wrote: post #186

The scary thing about smartphones is how they might be permanently changing adolescent and teenage brains, and not in a good way. Checking texts and emails, surfing the internet for information, and yes - even sites like HN and reddit - cause a dopamine surge in the brain that can lead to so-called 'dopamine loops' [1]. In such a crucial part of brain development, my fear is we are turning kids into the equivalent of…

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

Definitely true. As pointed out in your link, the redeeming thing about complex video games (e.g. an immersive RTS or a complex level designed and puzzle filled FPS) is it causes advantageous adaptions in the brain, although at the expense of potentially becoming addicting with too much nonstop playing.

We can decouple these effects in video games partly by limiting continuous playtime; it would be interesting to see if the same could be done with smartphones in an educational setting. I can think of one suggestion: make smartphones only able to utilize educational technology (e.g. a VR tour of the solar system) during school hours and disable text/email/social media apps (but leave emergency call numbers). How to implement this beyond the honor system, I am not sure. But maybe that is all that is needed.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#209

Post by eigenschwarz »

wccrawford wrote: post #207
sridca wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

And Television. And Radio. And tons of other things over the years. They aren't going away.

Do you watch TV or listen to radio in school unless the teacher introduces it as part of the learning process?

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#210

Post by eigenschwarz »

craftyguy wrote: post #206
sridca wrote: post #193

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The same can be said for video games. https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2017/06/170622103824.h...

I believe my parents said their parents told them same thing about TVs, and their parents parents told them radios, and so on.

Again, same as above: do you watch TV or listen to radio in school unless the teacher introduces it as part of the learning process? It's not that everything about a smartphone is bad - just like not everything about TV is bad - it's the unfettered and ubiquitous distractions inherent in smartphones being used during school hours for uses aside from learning.
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