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France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

theguardian.com

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Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#171

Post by zinckiwi »

fwn wrote: post #157
crdoconnor wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So in your view a school's main product is entertainment?

Not Op, but if it only were entertaining. If I had to guess, probably 80% of my school time was idle time so boring it felt like sensual deprivation. There was little else to do than bullying each other. If phones would've been a thing back then I'd remember rich experiences instead of the destructive time sink I remember now. (Germany, school from 1996 until 2009; currently working on econ PhD)

I had a lot of sensual deprivation as a teenager too :/

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#172

Post by sliverstorm »

JeanMarcS wrote: post #165
avip wrote: post #29

Sounds like pure common sense to me. Schools are implicitly responsible for the overall well-being of kids. Many schools ban smoking, sugary snacks/drinks, some dressing style (or non-dressing), makeup. Many parents would love to send their kids to schools without a phone, this will empower and support them.

Why did I had to scroll that far to finally find someone talking about the parents ! (or maybe I missed it) For me I find it astonishing that state have to make laws for common sense. When did it made sense to parents to let their kids go to school with a tool known for its distraction impact ? Some years ago, would you have send your kids to school with a portable tv ? The lack of parent education and common sense i…

The first hurdle is probably parental engagement, rather than common sense. Unfortunately we've been trying to fix it for decades.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#173

Post by sliverstorm »

gaius wrote: post #169

There is literally no reason for an under-18 to have a mobile phone at all .

I'd hardly go that far, calling my parents as a teen on phone booths never worked well, and phone booths are all but gone today.

(Smartphones are a different discussion)

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#174

Post by leongrado »

coldtea wrote: post #162
philamonster wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting. I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going…

>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?* Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained. Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's gr…

Completely agree.

The kids who wanted to do well always learned the material no matter how boring the material was taught and the kids who didn't want to learn didn't learn a thing even with the most engaging teacher. Teachers can only do so much.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#175

Post by cicero »

philamonster wrote: post #160
germinalphrase wrote: post #153

TLDR: As a high school level teacher, this would be less of a problem if teachers had stronger enforcement powers. Since we often don't - I would strongly favor a ban. If students need a computer, we have them available all day, every day. As a high school level teacher, I appreciate the attitude that there are amazing opportunities for learning and skill development with computers. I agree with this wholeheartedly.…

>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting. I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going…

Wrestling with learning a hard subject, even under the best teacher, will often lose out to the instant gratification that is available from a phone if that distraction is available. Adults have problems with this, so why wouldn't children?

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#176

Post by virtualized »

coldtea wrote: post #162
philamonster wrote: post #160

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>They are not, generally, breaking their attention away from class for some other kind of educational outlet (for which I am already fairly lenient when appropriate). They are sending their friends snaps, plays both games, and texting. I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going…

>* I'm all for moderation but the kids I have come across in my K-12 experience, if they're not paying attention, are generally pretty bored out of their minds with whatever else is going on in the classroom. Which begs the question; whose fault could that possibly be? The child's or the adult in the room?* Well, the kids are supposed to learn things, not to be entertained. Sometimes the two can coincide, and it's gr…

Learning the right things, in the right ways, is entertaining. I'd argue that school is neither about learning nor about entertainment. School is that experiment with the monkeys and the ladder. Its original purpose was making mindless factory workers. Students became teachers who taught more teachers and so on. What is the actual purpose of school nowadays? It's a place where you can leave your children while you work and it's a checkbox on a CV.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#177

Post by eesmith »

dazc wrote: post #62
eesmith wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Neither of those are true, not in any systemic sense. Some old people love to grouse about how Things Were Better Then, and how Children Used To Respect Authority. It's been that way for millennia. You ever read Heinlein? Back in the 1950s, his "Have Spacesuit Will Travel" complained about how schools were too touchy-feely, intent more on having students feel good than providing a good education.

'Some old people love to grouse about how Things Were Better Then, and how Children Used To Respect Authority...' I don't know if things were better then but (as a kid in the 70's) we certainly respected authority because the threat of physical violence was a real one. I am not saying that was a good thing by the way, just explaining.

I think you respected violence, not authority.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#179

Post by virtualized »

Montezuma_II wrote: post #25

I think this is a mainly positive move. Mobile phones are massive distractions to children, especially in a school context. When it comes to young children, I am skeptic to the use of digital technology in education in general. School should help incorporate good habits into a child's routine, such as reading books, and nailing reliance on phones into children is not something we want to be doing in schools.

Cave walls are massive distractions to children, especially in a school context. When it comes to young children, I am sceptic to the use of painting in education in general. School should help incorporate good habits into a child's routine, such as listening to stories, and nailing reliance on walls into children is not something we want to be doing in schools.

That's what your comment will sound like in 100 years.

Re: France to ban mobile phones in primary, junior and middle schools

#180

Post by zimpenfish »

jasonkester wrote: post #145
zimpenfish wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You'd go down to the common area of the hostel [] and strike up a conversation with pretty much anybody Don't conflate what you would do with the general case - I, for one, -might- venture to a common area but it's extremely unlikely I'd ever consider trying to strike up a conversation.

Apologies if I was not clear. That was what I observed other people doing. Lots of talking, lots of "new best friends", nobody sitting alone pretty much anywhere. Worldwide, as observed during 15 years of ~6months/year traveling. Most travelers during that period were, in fact, open to speaking to one another. And again, in the last 5 years of doing trips on several continents, people you see at "the bar down at the…

> That was what I observed other people doing. Lots of talking, lots of "new best friends", nobody sitting alone pretty much anywhere.

But isn't this subject to mild confirmation bias? Because you won't have seen the people who aren't in the common room.

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