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Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

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Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#51

Post by opportune »

kercker wrote: post #13
mtgx wrote: post #2

When we'll look back 20 years from now, we'll we see Google in the same light as we did IBM after helping the Nazi with their computers? Will Google allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents?

I find your argument rather lame. First, Chinese government is not Nazi and Google is not IBM. You can't just say that a government is Nazi just because you hate that government. Second, even if Google openly broke with Chinese government, it still has offices in China. I doubt that Google opens an AI center in China to "allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents", and I do thi…

At its core, the goal of the two regimes (China, Nazi Germany) is the same: control information so that the existing regime is portrayed in a good light that preserves stability. Just because China isn't genocoding Jews doesn't mean they don't have hundreds of thousands of political prisoners, disadvantaged minorities, and a completely authoritarian government. As is, you would never hear of the North Korean concentration camps that China supports, nor the Tibetan and Uighur genocides that are ongoing.

Google's move is purely financial. Google's biggest ambition is to control Chinese search, but its greatest ambition is to control all search, and the internet as whole. Google, as all other appreciably large tech companies, wants to hold a dominant position in the Chinse market, and to do so is willing to sacrifice market share in inferuor products. How much China gets involved is TB.

The really fun part? Watching corporate entities justify genocide, sexism, racism, etc. in their grabs for dominance over the remaining European provinces.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#52

Post by nipplesurvey »

astebbin wrote: post #33
paradite wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So assuming what you described is true, why hasn't the rest of the world declared war against the communist China? Because it's not close to what Nazis did. And that's my point. Btw, from the articles that you linked, it is quite clear that treating LGBT as disease is not a government policy. In fact, it is against the law. The government doesn't actively hunt for LGBT people and send them for treatment. In fact I th…

Your logic is not sound. North Korea was recently described as a worse human rights abuser than Nazi Germany, by a Holocaust survivor no less [0]. In spite of this commonly-held perception, no country has declared war on them, for many of the same economic and military reasons that no country has or would declare war on China. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/north-korean-gulags...

that's just propagandist fluff attempting to justify american intervention

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#53

Post by opportune »

exelius wrote: post #40
opportune wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily easier, just cheaper. Google can throw as much money at ML as it wants, but I contend that a top ML researcher is probably worth at least 3-5x more than mediocre one.

Yeah, I've worked with quite a few top ML researchers at US universities and many of them are Chinese nationals. Even here in the US. With China's economy booming the way it is and the overall political climate in the US right now, many see a better quality of life for themselves and their families in China. It's not just about cost.

What are they making? I've not heard of any >$200k/year ML researchers returning to China: usually it's good, but not amazing, researchers that do return.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#54

Post by whooshee »

gurkendoktor wrote: post #27
paradite wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying on citizens and dissidents, even if true, is nothing close to Nazis. For the record, - China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2 - China has 56 ethnic groups and has no plan to "cleanse" any of them

All capable governments are spying on their dissidents. However, the CCP also detains dissidents on the basis of its spying even in low-profile cases[1], and has been using prisoners (in other words, more dissidents) as a source of organ "donations" for a long time[2]. All the articles I've read about this topic are about specific religious groups (Uyghurs/Falun Gong). The Chinese treatment of Islam is so openly host…

Would you say providing public education and moving people from dangerous area to safer places as a way of cleansing their cultures? If you are really interested in China, you should just go somewhere and see for yourself. Media from China and anywhere else in the world are just slanted mirrors. When some Uyghur terrorists hit a train station in southern China and killed innocent civilians, some western media titled them as "terrorist" and implied they were repressed. As for Taiwan, It's still a legacy problem of Chinese civil war, It's really unlikely that China mainland will really do anything about Taiwan, speak of missiles, actually there was a missile missent and crashed by Taiwan towards mainland in recent years.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#55

Post by whooshee »

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #48
cat199 wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> - China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2 so was Stalin - are you saying comparisons between Stalin and Hitler would not be warranted?

Mao wasn’t really, he was content to let the KMT fight off the Japanese while the communists would conserve their strength for the oncoming civil war; Chiangkai Shek knew this and tried to play the same game, but the Americans wouldn’t let him. Mao is actually on record for thanking Japan in one of his weird off the cuff remarks: > "(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because ha…

It was more like irony, Mao also thanked Chiang who killed his some of his family members and he thanked America who killed his son. If you read history, Mao insisted on fighting against the Japanese invaders before Chang did. Do not forget KMT had America assistance in civil war, but they lost, because they were just too messy with economies and care too little about 90% of Chinese poor people.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#56

Post by whooshee »

cat199 wrote: post #46
paradite wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Spying on citizens and dissidents, even if true, is nothing close to Nazis. For the record, - China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2 - China has 56 ethnic groups and has no plan to "cleanse" any of them

> - China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2 so was Stalin - are you saying comparisons between Stalin and Hitler would not be warranted?

China was sided with US, and today is actually the anniversary of Nanking Massacre.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#57

Post by dis-sys »

opportune wrote: post #43
logicchains wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not necessarily cheaper: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-09-24/in-battle...

To be fair, that's like comparing Two Sigma to Google.

check the board of directors and the top management team in Google, can you see any Chinese name in the list? now check the same lists for BATJ, Alipay and Huawei.

with such bamboo ceiling in place, google doesn't stand a chance to complete for the best of the best.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#58

Post by astebbin »

nipplesurvey wrote: post #52
astebbin wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your logic is not sound. North Korea was recently described as a worse human rights abuser than Nazi Germany, by a Holocaust survivor no less [0]. In spite of this commonly-held perception, no country has declared war on them, for many of the same economic and military reasons that no country has or would declare war on China. [0] https://www.nbcnews.com/news/north-korea/north-korean-gulags...

that's just propagandist fluff attempting to justify american intervention

If that is what you believe, I would encourage you to check out these two books on the subject [0][1]. Both are engrossing reads, and paint a damning picture of the regime from different perspectives.

I have taken a strong amateur interest in North Korea for years, and the full body of press, reporting, and firsthand accounts I have read would support the comparison to Nazi Germany.

[0] https://www.amazon.com/Without-You-There-No-Undercover/dp/03... [1] https://www.amazon.com/Dear-Leader-Escape-North-Korea/dp/147...

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#59

Post by seanmcdirmid »

whooshee wrote: post #55
seanmcdirmid wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Mao wasn’t really, he was content to let the KMT fight off the Japanese while the communists would conserve their strength for the oncoming civil war; Chiangkai Shek knew this and tried to play the same game, but the Americans wouldn’t let him. Mao is actually on record for thanking Japan in one of his weird off the cuff remarks: > "(Japan) doesn't have to say sorry, you had contributed towards China, why? Because ha…

It was more like irony, Mao also thanked Chiang who killed his some of his family members and he thanked America who killed his son. If you read history, Mao insisted on fighting against the Japanese invaders before Chang did. Do not forget KMT had America assistance in civil war, but they lost, because they were just too messy with economies and care too little about 90% of Chinese poor people.

Mao insisted on the KMT fighting Japanese invaders before Chiang did for sure, but he still didn’t bother committing substantial forces to the war. Mao also didn’t care much about poor people, see how many Chinese civilians died in the Seige of Changchun.

Mao was basically a sociopath even if Chiang wasn’t much better; he was basically a smarter Donald Trump of his time, who knows what he would have written on weibo if it existed at the time!

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#60

Post by Top19 »

Please HN don’t censor this comment. I legitimately believe that the US and China are on the road to war, and this war will draw on in all the powers of the world.

This comment might be mocked, but if you read into history you can see how unbelievable war seemed within weeks of a conflict. The day WWI broke out the French and German ambassador were trying out each other’s cars and drinking wine in Alsace.

This research center is a bad idea. It’s like if the University of Chicago and Enrico Fermi decided to establish their atomic research lab in Munich in the 1930’s.

Don’t see this as an anti-Chinese comment, if anything the fault lies with Americans who abused, overused, and failed to adjust an international trade/monetary system. The fact that our government is now run by no one who served in or remembered World War II / The Great Depression seems a likely cause of how we went down this path.

If you’re curious for more on this, look into how close the US came to war with China in 1995 in Taiwan. Also look up the RAND Corporation’s study on war with China from 2015.

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