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Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

bbc.com

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Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#11

Post by kristianov »

opportune wrote: post #6

Perhaps this is because I don't have the hard facts and figures right in front of me, but I have a hard time believing that foreign tech investments in China really pay off. The Chinese strategy seems to be to woo big foreign companies, build a critical mass of local users who want the product, ban or otherwise limit the foreign company's influence in China, then develop a home-grown Chinese version of the foreign co…

Regulations and moral standards on AI research is PERMISSIVE. We have seen the same "advantage" in Chinese stem cell and embryonic research as well.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#13

Post by kercker »

mtgx wrote: post #2

When we'll look back 20 years from now, we'll we see Google in the same light as we did IBM after helping the Nazi with their computers? Will Google allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents?

I find your argument rather lame.

First, Chinese government is not Nazi and Google is not IBM. You can't just say that a government is Nazi just because you hate that government.

Second, even if Google openly broke with Chinese government, it still has offices in China. I doubt that Google opens an AI center in China to "allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents", and I do think that Google has a big ambition than you can think in China. And I think that ambition is to advance AI with the help of local talents.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#14

Post by paradite »

mtgx wrote: post #2

When we'll look back 20 years from now, we'll we see Google in the same light as we did IBM after helping the Nazi with their computers? Will Google allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents?

Spying on citizens and dissidents, even if true, is nothing close to Nazis. For the record,

- China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2

- China has 56 ethnic groups and has no plan to "cleanse" any of them

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#15

Post by kercker »

equalunique wrote: post #12

Did anyone else here grow up being told that the Chinese government stole search technology from Google when they tried to do business there, and this is how Baidu got started?

Once www.people.cn (the website of People's Daily) built a search engine and failed. If Chinese government stole search technology from Google, why would it give it to Baidu not to a search engine set up by its mouthpiece?

Baidu had already been popular in China before Google officially entered China, so there is no 'this is how Baidu got started' thing.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#16

Post by adventured »

equalunique wrote: post #12

Did anyone else here grow up being told that the Chinese government stole search technology from Google when they tried to do business there, and this is how Baidu got started?

No, that's an abnormal and rare accusation in fact.

Robin Li was working in the US on search before Google existed. That includes at IDD and Infoseek.

Circa 1999-2000, if you understood how PageRank worked (along with some other similar approaches), combined with some funding, talented engineers, and Li's background in search, it would not have been necessary to steal technology from Google to found something like Baidu.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#17

Post by opportune »

kristianov wrote: post #11
opportune wrote: post #6

Perhaps this is because I don't have the hard facts and figures right in front of me, but I have a hard time believing that foreign tech investments in China really pay off. The Chinese strategy seems to be to woo big foreign companies, build a critical mass of local users who want the product, ban or otherwise limit the foreign company's influence in China, then develop a home-grown Chinese version of the foreign co…

Regulations and moral standards on AI research is PERMISSIVE. We have seen the same "advantage" in Chinese stem cell and embryonic research as well.

Fair, but in my opinion a researcher who first publishes X result is usually the best equipped to first publish (or not publish, simply discover/use) Y result which depends on X. If we freely gave all US military research to Zimbabwe they wouldn't develop a top-tier military program because they don't have the expertise to understand and implement the knowledge that we have. This isn't the case with China

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#18

Post by kercker »

opportune wrote: post #6

Perhaps this is because I don't have the hard facts and figures right in front of me, but I have a hard time believing that foreign tech investments in China really pay off. The Chinese strategy seems to be to woo big foreign companies, build a critical mass of local users who want the product, ban or otherwise limit the foreign company's influence in China, then develop a home-grown Chinese version of the foreign co…

An AI center is not a product like a search engine or Windows, or an e-commerce site.

It helps China cultivate talents, why would China limit its influence.

MSRA accomplishes many things worthwhile such as ResNet in China, and it prospers now. Some researchers enter MSRA, and some leave. They enter or leave not because the government force them to do so, they enter or leave because they can tell where opportunity resides.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#19

Post by kercker »

opportune wrote: post #17
kristianov wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Regulations and moral standards on AI research is PERMISSIVE. We have seen the same "advantage" in Chinese stem cell and embryonic research as well.

Fair, but in my opinion a researcher who first publishes X result is usually the best equipped to first publish (or not publish, simply discover/use) Y result which depends on X. If we freely gave all US military research to Zimbabwe they wouldn't develop a top-tier military program because they don't have the expertise to understand and implement the knowledge that we have. This isn't the case with China

Isn't something published available to all the world?

If Google first publishes some result X, and Chinese researchers find this result, they are free to use this result to publish some result Y, regardless of whether Google opens an AI center in China.

Re: Google to open artificial intelligence centre in China

#20

Post by adventured »

paradite wrote: post #14
mtgx wrote: post #2

When we'll look back 20 years from now, we'll we see Google in the same light as we did IBM after helping the Nazi with their computers? Will Google allow its DeepMind technology to be used to spy on Chinese citizens and dissidents?

Spying on citizens and dissidents, even if true, is nothing close to Nazis. For the record, - China was on the opposite side of Nazis in WW2 - China has 56 ethnic groups and has no plan to "cleanse" any of them

The fact is Communist China has a very deep history of "cleansing" what they define as undesirables, which continues today in various forms. Today (and for decades now) they're aggressively attempting to "cleanse" homosexuals using state resources, torturing thousands of people. [1][2]

China's Communist system also "cleansed" a vast number of people throughout its recent history. Over two decades they murdered (or sent to gulags) hundreds of thousands of intellectuals and similar, who were declared to be class enemies. This in fact likely set China's potential back by decades as Mao's horrific policies severely depleted China's resources.

[1] "China urged to stop using electroshock therapy to ‘convert’ LGBT people"

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/worldviews/wp/2017/11/14...

[2] https://www.hrw.org/news/2017/11/14/china-end-conversion-the...

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