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Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

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Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#191

Post by liquidcool »

amiuba wrote: post #153
liquidcool wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, 5X! I have a small consultancy and most engineers are surprised to learn that 2X is typical. I do know some of the large management consulting firms have very high margins, especially on junior programmers, which you're clearly not. Specialist knowledge will also raise rates. But I suspect they have high churn with abuse like that. Do they have an awesome sales/marketing team, or are those rates typical for your…

I'm far from an expert, I'd say intermediate. There are people I work with who know far more than I do. The company specializes in a couple of frameworks so yes they sell expertise in that sense, and they've done a lot of work developing the brand. But yes, there are more jobs than people to fill them, which is pretty much any software development job that isn't gaming related or movie related. My company always has…

Traditionally it's been Java web application development and ecommerce, and I've subcontracted a few times when friends needed help.

But now I'm currently focusing more on staffing, since almost nobody technical is in recruiting, hence I'm a no brainer to hiring managers. Long term, I'll funnel recruiting revenue into products.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#192

Post by ambivalents »

amiuba wrote: post #176
vanderreeah wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your comment is well-meaning, and the warning about the necessity of networking is sound, but I think you're projecting a little. It seems presumptuous to read irrationality (i.e. something unexamined in his psyche, which is what I take you to mean when you talk about seeing a professional) into what seems to me to be a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of…

> a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of our working lives than the OP's post To be fair, it is extremely hard to tell, even for me (OP). Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts because everyone else seems to get by and just deal with it. Am I so special or fragile that I can't just suck it up and do like everyone else? No matter what angle I look at it though, I don't see…

I've been grappling with how unjust it feels to be an employee working in service of enriching another. I'm looking for a way out myself. But it helps to think about this in terms of risk. The owners of my company originally shouldered a great deal of risk, for a very small chance at a very high reward. It's worked out well for them. I, years later, benefit from their original and continued risk-taking in the form of a salary and benefits. In exchange, I give them 8/hr a day of decent work. The rest of my time is completely mine, and my livelihood does not depend on what I do in this time.

This does not always ease the day-to-day pains I feel about working for "the man." It still makes my blood boil sometimes. But I do appreciate the relative cushiness this position affords me: benefits, decent salary, and perhaps best of all: a full life outside of my working hours. I never have to worry about business development, annual revenues, appeasing shareholders, and all the other risky behavior required to run a successful business.

To be sure, I will never get rich as an employee (without deliberate frugality and smart investments). That's not how the system is set up. But you might find you value a comfortable middle class existence with a lot less stress more than making a lot of money (which requires, generally, a commensurate amount of risk/work). I'm still figuring that out myself.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#193

Post by erikb »

erikb wrote: post #168

Learn to work for someone else. Seriously there is no way out of it. Even a CEO works for someone else (investors/customers/shareholders). The blog posts that tell you otherwise are trying to bullshit the naive. Everybody is working for someone. The king/dictator you heard about that lives such a good life without considering others? He certainly considers his generals, and he certainly considers whoever provides the…

btw why does this downvoted? I was in the same situation when I was 20. Now with 32 I got used to working for someone else, as much as one can get used to it. I make more money, have a better office, better living area, more valuable connections. It's totally worth it.

On the other hand one of my best friends, same age, totally struggles with the concept, barely has any money, often doesn't even has a stable place to sleep.

One can fight against it, but life will fight back.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#194

Post by bigmanwalter »

ambivalents wrote: post #192
amiuba wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of our working lives than the OP's post To be fair, it is extremely hard to tell, even for me (OP). Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts because everyone else seems to get by and just deal with it. Am I so special or fragile that I can't just suck it up and do like everyone else? No matter what angle I look at it though, I don't see…

I've been grappling with how unjust it feels to be an employee working in service of enriching another. I'm looking for a way out myself. But it helps to think about this in terms of risk. The owners of my company originally shouldered a great deal of risk, for a very small chance at a very high reward. It's worked out well for them. I, years later, benefit from their original and continued risk-taking in the form of…

I don't quite agree with the risk angle because generally people who start their own businesses do so with strong family safety nets or with capital that they amassed in high paying professions. If their business fails, they are usually still ] better off than their employees.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#195

Post by bigmanwalter »

amiuba wrote: post #118
robot wrote: post #37

You make yourself unhappy by focusing on what your boss or company owners are doing. Don't think about them, they are external to you. Focus on what you want or like to do. You can try starting a consultancy business. Start as a freelance and grow that. Anything you do you must work hard and create value for others. If you do this consistently you will eventually move into a position where you are comfortable. The be…

That's the thing though: how do you start? Where do you find clients? I obviously can't go after any of my current employer's clients, I don't have friends who studied CS and work at prestigious companies... How do you get started?

First, have some savings, it took me ~3 years to get a solid sales pipeline going.

There are 2 types of freelancing. You can specialize in a platform or framework, like Rails/Shopify/WordPress, or you can specialize in delivering whole solutions.

I prefer whole solutions as it gives me control over the project which makes it more likely to succeed. But it takes longer to build a reputation that will get you these projects. Until then, it's easier to find a client that knows exactly what they want but needs a programmer familiar with their technology of choice.

After deciding on what niches you want to go after, you have to start marketing yourself. Print business cards, start heading to meetups and conferences. Find any tech/startup hubs and go to networking events that sound interesting. My rule of thumb is to try and make at least one good connection for every networking event you attend. At the same time, find some online job boards for your city. I have had very good luck with a Facebook group run by a local startup hub. I've heard good things about LinkedIn but haven't looked much myself.

The best is when you can find clients by word of mouth, because you aren't competing with anyone else for their business. The goal is to build enough word of mouth that clients find you. Until then, you have to hustle.

If you make sure to announce on all your social media channels that you are now freelance and you make sure all your friends and family know, clients will start to find their way to you. It takes some time, but it happens.

If you put effort into networking and marketing, you should find clients eventually. As long as you have enough money to float your expenses until the work becomes consistent.

While building your portfolio, don't be afraid to do a free project or two for friends. Barter can work well with artists if you like their work! You can work at a discounted rate if a project aligns strongly with your objectives.

After your portfolio is something you are proud of, you shouldn't need to worry about discounted work anymore.

Try not to get stuck doing an under priced project for too long. It will get highly demotivating.

After a few years, if you live somewhere with a decently active tech economy, things should be well on their way.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#197

Post by ajeet_dhaliwal »

amiuba wrote: post #176
vanderreeah wrote: post #175

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know your comment is well-meaning, and the warning about the necessity of networking is sound, but I think you're projecting a little. It seems presumptuous to read irrationality (i.e. something unexamined in his psyche, which is what I take you to mean when you talk about seeing a professional) into what seems to me to be a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of…

> a 100% sane assessment of his situation. Nothing could be a more accurate picture of most of our working lives than the OP's post To be fair, it is extremely hard to tell, even for me (OP). Sometimes I feel like I'm nuts because everyone else seems to get by and just deal with it. Am I so special or fragile that I can't just suck it up and do like everyone else? No matter what angle I look at it though, I don't see…

amiuba, we're either both crazy or both sane.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#198

Post by Kaka4 »

I had also thought about this so many times. Working for the man who doesn't even care about his staff. One of my colleague has lost his job few weeks back. I don't know what he wants for us. But one thing for sure, he is arrogant and just care about himself and nobody else.

I just don't want to work here and I'm looking for some new place when the right time is come. The day when I'll say enough is enough you jerk, I'm done here.

I also have the fight yesterday with him and when I came home, I'm just screaming at everyone in my house. But than I Cam myself down and listen to a new song and I want to share with you here: http://www.lyricshawa.com/2017/12/bollywood-lyrics-akhil/

Then I thought one day, I will muster some confidence to just quit this job and find a better one. But one thought that always come in my mind is this, What if that another organisation have the same boss like him. Haha.. I'm just little bit confused right now.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#199

Post by increment_i »

bigmanwalter wrote: post #194
ambivalents wrote: post #192

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've been grappling with how unjust it feels to be an employee working in service of enriching another. I'm looking for a way out myself. But it helps to think about this in terms of risk. The owners of my company originally shouldered a great deal of risk, for a very small chance at a very high reward. It's worked out well for them. I, years later, benefit from their original and continued risk-taking in the form of…

I don't quite agree with the risk angle because generally people who start their own businesses do so with strong family safety nets or with capital that they amassed in high paying professions. If their business fails, they are usually still ] better off than their employees.

I very much doubt this is the case. In 2011, over half a million businesses were started each month in the U.S. in addition to the 23 million small businesses that were already around. Seems unlikely to assume these were all from well to do folks with a strong safety net.

Source: http://censtats.census.gov/cgi-bin/nonemployer/nonsect.pl

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#200

Post by [deleted] »

vanderreeah wrote: post #183
amiuba wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But once you've seen what you've seen, you can't unsee it. What do you do then?

I do not know. But there are of course millions of people in our position. I suppose any possible solution can only come from the only strength we have, which is the knowledge of our shared, common situation. EDIT: Jesus I sound pompous sometimes...

[deleted]
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