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Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

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Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#141

Post by SubuSS »

NOTE: This applies only to the Big 5 (Amazon/Google/MS/FB/Oracle). To be really honest, it is hard to distinguish the big companies today based on non-money line items:

- All the companies I have and am working for have very smart folk, very personable people you want to work with / learn from.

- All the companies pay well, have great benefits.

- I don't care for perks, I can afford the $20 a day to spend on food and snacks.

- All of em have great challenges to tackle, and usually you are sought after by the teams with exactly those. No one is going to pay you double your worth to sit around / purely 'learn on the job'. Past experience counts big when it comes to leveling/team choices in all of them.

- All of them are exponentially growing.

- Almost all of them are dabbling in each others areas of work: Everyone is doing databases/fs/networking/user applications/web dev and what not.

For me the choice of snap was purely because I wanted a small company experience without the risk of a pure startup, in fact all the benefits and better compared to the big 5. Unless you have a specific requirement like that, sadly money will end up being the differentiator.

To add some irony to the whole discussion, they know this as well: All the offers I got from the big companies were with few $$$ of each other. I didn't tell them my current salary with Amazon, it didn't even come close to the numbers on glassdoor for my then level, but magically they seem to 'know' (shrug).

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#142

Post by CydeWeys »

jrs235 wrote: post #122
eloisant wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't think that works on long term. The amount of money you make will soon become your new normal, but the shitty condition will continue to make your life miserable. The only difference the extra money makes is that once you got used to the money, you're trapped in that position.

They have to hope people succumb to lifestyle inflation. They probably try to get you hooked on $5000 suits, $200 diners, luxury vehicles, vacations in the Hamptons, etc.

A lot of these things don't bring you much additional happiness compared to their lower cost alternatives (especially not suits or fancy dinners).

However, what does bring you lots of additional happiness is being able to afford a home that is large enough for you within a short walking distance of work. In many places like SF or NYC that requires a serious amount of money (many millions), and yet it does significantly improve your happiness in a way that a lesser amount of money cannot by buying you more available time each day.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#143

Post by ghostbrainalpha »

Bjartr wrote: post #139
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances) My problem is with that statement. I know this is a very common belief, but has anyone actually hit that point? I have gone through several cycles over the past 10 years, where I thought 20% more money would get me there. At each point, what was required to be c…

In my current job I am paid below market rate. If I cared about money first I absolutely would not remain in this job. However, the coworkers are absolutely excellent and I am treated with respect. I would hesitate to trade that for anything less than an absolutely stellar offer well above market rate because not only what I have good, but also that I am content with my current lifestyle.

It makes me really happy that there are people like you who have achieved this.

Anxiety is destroying me in my current job, even though I love my co-workers. I need to figure out how to value money less and find an employer that would work with me on a 4 day week schedule.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#144

Post by sethammons »

virgilp wrote: post #22
sethammons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've turned down greater pay for better working conditions. Money is important, but after a given level and within given margins, other concerns start taking priority.

While undoubtedly true, I'm speculating this can in fact be translated to money. You've turned down 50k$/y, say. Would you have turned down an extra 100k? 200k? 500k? I bet at some point you would've said "fuck it, yes I'll take the job despite conditions". But yes, eventually it's just cheaper to create the better working conditions than to pay everybody the extra money :)

For sure (thus the comment on margins). 10% increase, meh. 100% increase, I'll give very healthy consideration :)

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#145

Post by kemiller2002 »

billmalarky wrote: post #91
kemiller2002 wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

For some people you are correct. They will not turn down more money. After a certain point in your career you realize that money does not buy happiness, and it certainly does not buy you more time. As people get older and have families etc., people begin to realize that going home at a reasonable hour is much more important than extra money.

>money does not buy happiness, True. Once a certain threshold is met. > and it certainly does not buy you more time False. Money buys a lot of time. An extra $XX,000 a year invested will have you living off your capital instead of work after Y years. The moment you go from working for someone else to being supported by your wealth you just bought 50% of your waking life back.

Tell that to Randy Pausch.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#146

Post by notyourday »

jrs235 wrote: post #122
eloisant wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Honestly I don't think that works on long term. The amount of money you make will soon become your new normal, but the shitty condition will continue to make your life miserable. The only difference the extra money makes is that once you got used to the money, you're trapped in that position.

They have to hope people succumb to lifestyle inflation. They probably try to get you hooked on $5000 suits, $200 diners, luxury vehicles, vacations in the Hamptons, etc.

$5000 is a Kilgour suit. I can take them or leave them - you can get really nice suits for $1k. In NYC, you can get really nice ones for $750.

$200 dinner is nothing special. You can easily spend $200 for two people in any major market in any non-garbage restaurant:

Appetizers ~ 17-20 each Mains 29-60 each Bottle of wine - 40 and above Tax ~ 10% Tip ~ 20%

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#147

Post by swat535 »

notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

I am not sure if I fully agree with this.

I think time and health are the most valuable assets one can have, followed immediately by money.

You can have all the money in the world but without health, you will not enjoy it.

You can have all the money in the world but without time, you will not enjoy it.

Having more money is fantastic, if and only if the first two criterias are met in my opinion.

I think it's a matter of calculating the risk/reward which greatly based on your personal situation, we can't lump everyone in the same basket.

There is a balance to keep.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#148

Post by purplezooey »

How about not putting your new company in Palo Alto, Mountain View, Menlo Park or Santa Clara. Nobody can live there, it's impossible to drive/transit there from anywhere, and they're just plain miserable places with cheaply constructed office buildings. So tired of seeing this.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#149

Post by notyourday »

pm215 wrote: post #115
dmitrygr wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can. Yes. Go to your boss. Ask to be paid 60% of your current salary to work M-W. I'm sure you'll get a yes.

Perhaps, but that would be exactly valuing the extra free time over the pure amount of cash, which is a counterargument to your "solved by money" idea. I would take "$60,000 and a 3 day week", but "solved by money" suggests you should take "100,000 and a 5 day week".

60k for 3 days a week is exactly the same as 100k for 5 days a week.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#150

Post by dethswatch »

maxxxxx wrote: post #38
derekp7 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As an employee, I don't want to work for a place that is paying me more than they feel I'm worth. Because then they start to resent you. "What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for." Had this at a previous job (I was actually right at market rate, or slightly below, but a year prior the company was offering about 20% below market for this position). And every time I asked for…

"What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for." That's just a bullying strategy for underpaid people. If you are really highly paid you are in the "in" group and they will make sure that you get what you need. Otherwise they would be wasting your expensive time.

This is a supremely good point that we (devs) normally fail to grasp-- you think the CFO gets talked to like that? The answer is no-- at the places I've been.
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