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Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

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Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#41

Post by dmitrygr »

jcadam wrote: post #8
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

  Money is important, but
I'm going to stop you right there.

#1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it

#2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k

#3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k.

#4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate

You know why? Money buys more than just "roof" and "comfort". It buys everything. Planes. Parachutes. Yachts. Horses. Jet skis. Vacation homes. College and private school for kids.

If you think that more money doesn't motivate you, either you've never been paid enough, or you need to go find some interesting hobbies. You'll quickly find they cost money (and do not accept "but I'm happy at work" statements as payment)

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#42

Post by kemiller2002 »

virgilp wrote: post #22
sethammons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've turned down greater pay for better working conditions. Money is important, but after a given level and within given margins, other concerns start taking priority.

While undoubtedly true, I'm speculating this can in fact be translated to money. You've turned down 50k$/y, say. Would you have turned down an extra 100k? 200k? 500k? I bet at some point you would've said "fuck it, yes I'll take the job despite conditions". But yes, eventually it's just cheaper to create the better working conditions than to pay everybody the extra money :)

For some people you are correct. They will not turn down more money. After a certain point in your career you realize that money does not buy happiness, and it certainly does not buy you more time. As people get older and have families etc., people begin to realize that going home at a reasonable hour is much more important than extra money.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#43

Post by pm215 »

dmitrygr wrote: post #41
jcadam wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

Money is important, but I'm going to stop you right there. #1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it #2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k #3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k. #4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate You know why? Money bu…

OK, so how do I buy a 3-day working week with my extra salary?

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#44

Post by dkhenry »

Wow these comments are depressing. The extreme polarization between, pay me enough and I'll do anything, and take one for the team by making peanuts and working obscene hours is kinda frightenting. Has no one had a job where they were treated well and paid a fair wage? Its perfectly reasonable to get both of those things and be able to make a decision on a company based on additional things, like what the mission is, or who you will work with, or what tools you will use. Money isn't everything and you don't have to be taken advantage of. There is a middle ground.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#45

Post by jasode »

saosebastiao wrote: post #31
jasode wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money. That's not true for everyone. I've taken $20k less salary to work on technologies that were more interesting. Money is just one dimension and one can be strategic about it. People can have other priorities besides money. Salary is important but it's not the only priority nor is it always the most important prior…

All you’ve said though is that your personal marginal value of working on an interesting problem is worth more than 25k, but you haven’t stated where that ends. What if the offer was 100k more? 250k more? I hated working for Amazon more than any other job. But I’d do it again for double my previous salary. And that’s why the suggestion matters: nobody is going to change their job requirements to recruit more candidat…

>an interesting problem is worth more than 25k, but you haven’t stated where that ends.

It doesn't matter where it ends in the context of the reply to notyourday's assertion that only _one_ thing matters to non-mentally impaired people and that is _money_.

>I hated working for Amazon more than any other job. But I’d do it again for double my previous salary.

Totally understandable and that's why I began my comment that priorities will be different for different people. That's ok. The world needs all types.

My comment is informed by my experience with various tech jobs with wildly different salaries. I earned 2x the Google/Facebook salaries working for finance companies for 10 years. It was the worst 10 years of my life. The massive salary (massive for a programmer) let me buy nice toys, travel to expensive exotic places, and build up a nest egg but it was also soul-sucking misery. I look back at that period with regret. If I had to do it over, I should have taken a lesser paying $150k job with a company working on things that were interesting to me.

However, that doesn't mean other programmers can't accept the miserable finance job with insanely high pay. If it pays big money, they'll be fine with it because they can compartmentalize the job and find meaning elsewhere. Some people can do that, but that's not me. Terrible work and uninspiring colleagues just spills over into personal life even when I'm not physically at the job site.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#46

Post by eloisant »

dmitrygr wrote: post #41
jcadam wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

Money is important, but I'm going to stop you right there. #1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it #2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k #3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k. #4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate You know why? Money bu…

Honestly I don't think that works on long term. The amount of money you make will soon become your new normal, but the shitty condition will continue to make your life miserable.

The only difference the extra money makes is that once you got used to the money, you're trapped in that position.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#47

Post by dmitrygr »

pm215 wrote: post #43
dmitrygr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is important, but I'm going to stop you right there. #1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it #2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k #3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k. #4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate You know why? Money bu…

OK, so how do I buy a 3-day working week with my extra salary?

You can. Yes. Go to your boss. Ask to be paid 60% of your current salary to work M-W. I'm sure you'll get a yes.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#48

Post by dmitrygr »

eloisant wrote: post #46
dmitrygr wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is important, but I'm going to stop you right there. #1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it #2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k #3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k. #4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate You know why? Money bu…

Honestly I don't think that works on long term. The amount of money you make will soon become your new normal, but the shitty condition will continue to make your life miserable. The only difference the extra money makes is that once you got used to the money, you're trapped in that position.

Hobbies

Try them.

I promise you that when you're making a 14-person formation in freeall, or flying a new faster turboprop, or signing for your new yacht, your work will not be on your mind.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#49

Post by dragonwriter »

dmitrygr wrote: post #41
jcadam wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

Money is important, but I'm going to stop you right there. #1 is solved by more money. Want me to work in a team that mocks my work? $100k extra will do it #2 is solved by more money. Want me to work with dirtbags? $100k #3 is solved by more money. Want me to wear a "super junior nobody" title? As long as you're up front about it, $100k. #4 is solved by money. My overtime rate is 2x normal rate You know why? Money bu…

> If you think that more money doesn't motivate you, either you've never been paid enough

Or you have; there's significant evidence that behind a certain level, additional income doesn't actually provide additional improvement in most measures of satisfaction and subjective quality of life (IIRC, some studied in the 1990s showed this on average at somewhere around $250,000 in then-current dollars in the US.) Once you've reached the point where that occurs, it only motivates to the extent that knowing you've missed an opportunity to run up a higher score is disappointing to you.

I've been poor, and I was much more motivated by money then than now, when I'm being paid much more.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#50

Post by Simon_says »

torstenvl wrote: post #21
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

What is the dollar value for which you are willing to sell the prime of your life? If someone offered you $500,000 over the course of three years to give up your mid- or late-twenties, would you take it?

That's not far off from what I did. I got total after tax compensation of around $4MM for 4 years of intense work. I consistently worked around 100 hours per week. So basically no life at all besides eat/sleep/shower/gym/work. No social life. No hobbies. No family time. No down time - for 4 years. It took a toll, but it was worth it in my opinion, as I'm financially independent now and I retired early, and I will never work another job that I'm not absolutely in love with. I would repeat the same thing again if given a choice, and a lot of poor bastards work more for less compensation, so I count myself fortunate to have had the opportunity.

However, I think $500,000k for 3 years is probably not a great deal, and I probably wouldn't have accepted that bargain.

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