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Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

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Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#11

Post by sethammons »

notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

I've turned down greater pay for better working conditions. Money is important, but after a given level and within given margins, other concerns start taking priority.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#12

Post by lhnz » 

  > There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though.
  > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time
  > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check.
This is a red flag to me.

What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends?

Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lifestyle to software engineers when they're fresh and naive or wishing to prioritise other things over money is fine. But eventually people start wanting to be able to get a pay-off for their investment in "learning". If all you're offering is warm-fuzzies, they'll go somewhere in which the remuneration is able to support investment outside from themselves.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#13

Post by jasode »

notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money.

That's not true for everyone. I've taken $20k less salary to work on technologies that were more interesting. Money is just one dimension and one can be strategic about it.

People can have other priorities besides money. Salary is important but it's not the only priority nor is it always the most important priority.

Someone previously said that the best programmers are "coin-operated". Well, I guess I'm a substandard programmer because I'm definitely not coin-operated. I may prefer a $150k job that utilizes machine learning to analyze cancer cells instead of $175k to trick people into clicking ads.

If job salary is the most important factor for a candidate, that's absolutely fine. This essay really isn't intended for candidates with that mindset.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#14

Post by derekp7 »

notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

As an employee, I don't want to work for a place that is paying me more than they feel I'm worth. Because then they start to resent you. "What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for."

Had this at a previous job (I was actually right at market rate, or slightly below, but a year prior the company was offering about 20% below market for this position). And every time I asked for clarification, or performed the job that was asked for (instead of what they "really wanted", since I wasn't a mind reader), I got that thrown in my face. Can't believe I stuck around for 3 years there.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#15

Post by YPCrumble »

lhnz wrote: post #12

> There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though. > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. This is a red flag to me. What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends? Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lif…

This is a good summary of the Republican Manifesto. People in power convince powerless people that they shouldn't desire power. This allows the people in power to consolidate more power.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#16

Post by maxxxxx »

YPCrumble wrote: post #15
lhnz wrote: post #12

> There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though. > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. This is a red flag to me. What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends? Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lif…

This is a good summary of the Republican Manifesto. People in power convince powerless people that they shouldn't desire power. This allows the people in power to consolidate more power.

True. Or companies that are only about money try to convince people who work for them that money is not important.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#17

Post by lhnz »

jcadam wrote: post #8
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

This is true, but can I just pay devil's advocate here. What if you're exceptionally stoic and enjoy learning things in your spare time?

If you're emotionally stable enough and a hard worker outside of your career, you might want to just grow yourself a nest egg (pension, housing, shares, etc.) or make as much money as possible to provide for your children/wife/hedonism.

Also, it's a good thing to learn how to placate toxic personalities and to be low maintenance.

Not saying that it's easy, but I wanted to say this because I think people assume too readily that their own personal comfort is the most important thing when they take a job. Personally, as my emotional health has gotten better and I've made deeper connections with people, I've prioritised very different things than my younger self.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#18

Post by YPCrumble »

maxxxxx wrote: post #16
YPCrumble wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a good summary of the Republican Manifesto. People in power convince powerless people that they shouldn't desire power. This allows the people in power to consolidate more power.

True. Or companies that are only about money try to convince people who work for them that money is not important.

Haha that's clearly First Round Capital's motto!

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#19

Post by maxxxxx »

dmos62 wrote: post #9
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

Other people look at work as a meaningful part of one's life and take care how to spend it. Some people, once they have basic security, financial or other, look for a fulfilling role in society. That is admirable and sustainable. Your described worldview is characteristic of greed, egoism and shorttermism and generally wasted potential (or a highly hostile environment).

People who don't care about money should make sure to work for companies that also don't only care about money.

Most companies talk as if they have higher values but in reality they are only about money. I always find it condescending to tell people who aren't independently wealthy that money is not that important while at the same time the owners of a company try to squeeze out every bit of profit.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#20

Post by username223 »

lhnz wrote: post #12

> There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though. > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. This is a red flag to me. What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends? Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lif…

> “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. Money is not a great motivation,” says Ajmal. “But it’s actually very common that this is driving the entire process for them.”

Ugh. No sh*t, Sherlock! And we're expected to believe money isn't driving the entire process for you? There are things I care about besides money, like not working for manipulative jerks, but at the end of a day it's a "job," preceded by a "salary negotiation" in which I trade my labor for payment, most of which will take the form of "money."

EDIT: > Ask them what they are maximizing for in their job search and how they’re approaching that. People are not used to this question and may be more candid, saving you a longer time investment.

Wow, this is a horrible and cynical person.

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