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Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

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Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#31

Post by saosebastiao »

jasode wrote: post #13
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money. That's not true for everyone. I've taken $20k less salary to work on technologies that were more interesting. Money is just one dimension and one can be strategic about it. People can have other priorities besides money. Salary is important but it's not the only priority nor is it always the most important prior…

All you’ve said though is that your personal marginal value of working on an interesting problem is worth more than 25k, but you haven’t stated where that ends. What if the offer was 100k more? 250k more?

I hated working for Amazon more than any other job. But I’d do it again for double my previous salary. And that’s why the suggestion matters: nobody is going to change their job requirements to recruit more candidates...you are best off paying more money.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#32

Post by Spooky23 »

jasode wrote: post #13
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money. That's not true for everyone. I've taken $20k less salary to work on technologies that were more interesting. Money is just one dimension and one can be strategic about it. People can have other priorities besides money. Salary is important but it's not the only priority nor is it always the most important prior…

You probably sought out a job with that technology.

If some recruiter is reading tea leaves to figure out what motivates me so that they can lowball me, that’s different.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#33

Post by ska »

virgilp wrote: post #22
sethammons wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've turned down greater pay for better working conditions. Money is important, but after a given level and within given margins, other concerns start taking priority.

While undoubtedly true, I'm speculating this can in fact be translated to money. You've turned down 50k$/y, say. Would you have turned down an extra 100k? 200k? 500k? I bet at some point you would've said "fuck it, yes I'll take the job despite conditions". But yes, eventually it's just cheaper to create the better working conditions than to pay everybody the extra money :)

While true, this isn't particularly actionable if "fuck, yes I'll take the job despite the conditions" is economically unfeasible for most cases.

Of course it's different for everyone but I would speculate that most people are also strongly motivated by other factors, once money is not too strong a constraint on what they can do.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#34

Post by raducu »

derekp7 wrote: post #14
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

As an employee, I don't want to work for a place that is paying me more than they feel I'm worth. Because then they start to resent you. "What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for." Had this at a previous job (I was actually right at market rate, or slightly below, but a year prior the company was offering about 20% below market for this position). And every time I asked for…

I heard this argument thrown by a manager at an annual review: "We're paying you what you are worth to us, not what the market pays", to which I promptly replied: "Following your logic, can I step in a Ferrari dealership and pay only 1000$ for a nice car, because that's what it's worth to me?"

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#35

Post by Spooky23 »

lhnz wrote: post #12

> There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though. > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. This is a red flag to me. What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends? Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lif…

Family? Owning a home? Obviously your passions aren’t in the right place! :)

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#36

Post by how_gauche »

username223 wrote: post #20
lhnz wrote: post #12

> There is one motivation that should raise a red flag, though. > “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time > on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. This is a red flag to me. What if engineers want to buy houses or support families? What if they have elite backgrounds and want a similarly high level of living as their friends? Offering bread-and-circuses and work-as-lif…

> “The candidates that I don't usually want to spend much time on are folks who are basically just looking for the next big check. Money is not a great motivation,” says Ajmal. “But it’s actually very common that this is driving the entire process for them.” Ugh. No sh*t, Sherlock! And we're expected to believe money isn't driving the entire process for you? There are things I care about besides money, like not worki…

> And we're expected to believe money isn't driving the entire process for you?

It's right there in the name, even!!! It's not "First Round Hugs" or "First Round Charity", is it?

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#37

Post by dmitrygr »

I guess I'm one of those "red flag" candidates that this guy says you shouldn't hire. If I wanted to make a difference, I'd join the Red Cross. If I wanted to solve people's problems, I'd go work as a life coach. I want to get paid the maximum amount while working around people and doing a job that doesn't make me want to blow my brains out or work 20 hour days. That is all.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#38

Post by maxxxxx »

derekp7 wrote: post #14
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

As an employee, I don't want to work for a place that is paying me more than they feel I'm worth. Because then they start to resent you. "What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for." Had this at a previous job (I was actually right at market rate, or slightly below, but a year prior the company was offering about 20% below market for this position). And every time I asked for…

"What do you mean you can't read my mind? That's what I'm paying you [large sum] for."

That's just a bullying strategy for underpaid people. If you are really highly paid you are in the "in" group and they will make sure that you get what you need. Otherwise they would be wasting your expensive time.

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#39

Post by SonicSoul »

notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

I've strongly considered taking a 65% compensation cut to work at a startup because it would be so much cooler to talk about, i'd learn a whole new stack, worked alongside super stars, and walk to work. The only reason i didn't take it was because said startup didn't follow up initial negotiation (mainly because even if i took such a big cut, i'd still be expensive for them). But i am certain i would have taken it and been much more happy. I know others who took such cuts to leave cushy "VP" positions and are very happy for doing so.

*that said, there are very few companies that offer such conditions. 90% of places i ever interviewed at feel more like "work" and i'd want to maximize income for being there

Re: Make Stronger Offers to Engineering Candidates and Boost Your Closes

#40

Post by briandear »

jcadam wrote: post #8
notyourday wrote: post #2

So. Much. B.S. There is only one thing that people who have not been dropped on a head interested in. It is called money . Money buys them stuff. Money lets them have a nice roof over their head. Money lets their family not worry about a slum in the economy. Everything else is secondary. Here's a magic formula: MaxMoney(Min(work)) 402 "PAY_ME_MORE_MONEY" P.S. That's why it is called a job and not hobby or volunteerin…

Money is important, but past a certain point (when you are able to live comfortably and are no longer feeling stressed about your personal/family finances), other factors come into play. Off the top of my head: 1) Respect. By that I mean professional respect - I want to feel that my contributions are valued and that people recognize my talents :) 2) Team. Working with dirtbags is miserable no matter how much you get…

I don’t know, $750k per year would put all of those concerns to rest for me.

I don’t care about respect when I’m sitting on a boat off the coast of Nice. “Comfortable” for me means having the option to not work.

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