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Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

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Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#71

Post by [deleted] »

gadders wrote: post #62
Theodores wrote: post #39

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Stop Funding Hate is a pressure group outing major brands and getting the to apologise for advertising in the Daily Mail, e.g. 'Paperchase', last week or so: http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42058103 So this is a valid point, HN needs to find better sources that the Daily Mail. In light of this, here you go: https://www.glassdoor.co.uk/Reviews/Amazon-Flex-Reviews-E132...

Stop funding hate is a pressure group consisting of a few hundred far-left agitators. Censorship should be opposed in all forms. https://blogs.spectator.co.uk/2016/11/stop-funding-hate-nast...

[deleted]

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#72

Post by scottishfiction »

pjmlp wrote: post #46
mabbo wrote: post #7

It's such a complex situation. Amazon has contracts with small companies who provide trucks and humans. Amazon provides the work, the groups of packages, the routes, the app the drivers need to use to deliver. The companies compete with each other for more 'routes' each day. They offer to take on more work, to do more. And then they hire anyone they can to fulfill those routes. The drivers themselves are on contracts…

Primarily Amazon, for not caring about the contractors life, as long packages get delivered and its cheap. A company has a moral responsability to ensure its suppliers do meet certain standards.

It's wishful thinking to believe that any company has a moral responsibility. Companies only have legal/fiscal responsibilities. If you expect companies to act morally in the long-term you don't understand capitalism.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#73

Post by martinald »

damal wrote: post #16
mabbo wrote: post #7

It's such a complex situation. Amazon has contracts with small companies who provide trucks and humans. Amazon provides the work, the groups of packages, the routes, the app the drivers need to use to deliver. The companies compete with each other for more 'routes' each day. They offer to take on more work, to do more. And then they hire anyone they can to fulfill those routes. The drivers themselves are on contracts…

Amazon. They switched from using respectable national couriers that employ people full time in well paid jobs, to creating a platform that rewards bottom feeders. Adsense/Adwords did it with the ad industry. Uber did it with taxis etc. The constant march of technology for efficiency without considering the ethics.

The whole parcel delivery market (in the UK at least) has really ended up going this way over the last 5-10 years.

As soon as one company switches to self employed 'gig economy' compensation for their fleet, they get a big advantage in costs which means they can push prices lower.

The only way the competitors can match it IMO is by also switching to the same model, otherwise they lose contracts to the companies that do.

I think it's especially difficult in parcel delivery as the 'customer' is the store you order from, not yourself. So you don't really ever buy parcel delivery services yourself, it's always subcontracted.

Not really sure the best way to solve this apart from govt regulation, but feel it would cause all kinds of crazy side effects if not well thought out.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#74

Post by consp »

Kadin wrote: post #11
snarf21 wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree, this is part of the "gig" economy gone bad. I think the solution is quite simple though. All contracts must also include a minimum wage (not saying this is the US minimum wage currently) per hour. This sets a floor and forces more of the cost back up the chain. It fixes the problem of someone forcing minimally bid contracts to people who are desperate for any kind of work. We have great algorithms and the co…

Minimum wage laws are already supposed to work like that. The problem is that companies, Amazon and their contractors in particular, have been able to mischaracterize employees as "contractors" in order to get around minimum wage laws. It's the lax enforcement of 1099 mischaracterization that has allowed the "gig economy" shit-sandwich jobs to proliferate. A deliver driver who has to maintain a delivery schedule or m…

This happened in the Netherlands with PostNL (former TNT) and the lawmakers actually are working to prohibit this false contracting (since there is a direct relation between employer and employee thus no contracting but regular employment). Though they are overdoing it and taking some self employed people down with it in the process. It's called 'wet DBA' and needs some refinement in the coming years but might work in the end.

You could call it progress though. And it is an example in which both regulation is needed and can be achieved somewhat.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#75

Post by Ygg2 »

scottishfiction wrote: post #72
pjmlp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily Amazon, for not caring about the contractors life, as long packages get delivered and its cheap. A company has a moral responsability to ensure its suppliers do meet certain standards.

It's wishful thinking to believe that any company has a moral responsibility. Companies only have legal/fiscal responsibilities. If you expect companies to act morally in the long-term you don't understand capitalism.

Pretty much this. Capital abhors restrictions - whether moral or legal.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#76

Post by twobyfour »

Yet another point in the "don't use Amazon" column. Yes, it can be slightly less convenient to have to shop around - but if you can afford it, it's worth it for the peace of mind.

Besides, I no longer trust Amazon to send me the actual product listed. The small retailers have been far more reliable in that regard.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#77

Post by pjmlp »

scottishfiction wrote: post #72
pjmlp wrote: post #46

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Primarily Amazon, for not caring about the contractors life, as long packages get delivered and its cheap. A company has a moral responsability to ensure its suppliers do meet certain standards.

It's wishful thinking to believe that any company has a moral responsibility. Companies only have legal/fiscal responsibilities. If you expect companies to act morally in the long-term you don't understand capitalism.

I sure do understand it, hence why don't agree with it and am a big supporter of unions.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#78

Post by userbinator »

deanCommie wrote: post #14

On reddit, "spagheddie" wrote: I was once a FedEx delivery driver, so I don't know how it is for Amazon, but I would imagine it's similar? At FedEx we got paid per package delivered, which means the faster you deliver your packages, the more you are technically getting paid per hour. In addition to this, you'd get a daily bonus for delivering the packages fast. We could take our lunches whenever, nobody cared as long…

which means the faster you deliver your packages, the more you are technically getting paid per hour. In addition to this, you'd get a daily bonus for delivering the packages fast.

Am I the only one here who thinks "that might actually be fun for a little bit" --- as in, not doing it as a full-time job, but as in "playing a game" once in a while? It sounds rather competitive.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#79

Post by mtpn »

anonathon0000 wrote: post #18

I'm a supervisor at UPS, so maybe I can offer an opinion (this is a throwaway account). I'm not sure if there is anything analogous to the US Department Of Transportation in England, but we have to abide by pretty strict rules here in the USA regarding driving hours. A UPS driver cannot work over 14 hours on a shift, must have 10 hours between shifts, and cannot exceed 60 hours in a week without (IIRC) 38 consecutive…

Not to detail this too much, but can you confirm a story my boss was told last week is possible? We've had the same stuff "out for delivery" for several days to a residential address. They told my boss "well, you're near the end of the route so if the driver doesn't get to you in his 12 hours it stays on the truck overnight" ... This seems daft. And repeats for days and days. I'm trying all my January stuff with FedEx but we like UPS because of the union.

Re: Amazon delivery drivers complain about bad work conditions

#80

Post by [deleted] »

misja111 wrote: post #66
dazc wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

'Who is to blame? Amazon? The companies? The drivers? Capitalism gone mad? Take your pick.' You can add 'customers' to this list since this is where it all begins. It isn't so long ago that all people complained about was the time it took for stuff to be delivered and all those 'we called but there was no one in' cards. So capitalism responded and now folks have something else to complain about.

I don't see why this was downvoted. If Amazon would treat their drivers better, prices and/or delivery times would go up. And that would make a lot of customers go to competitors who might treat their drivers worse but offer a better deal.

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