Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur? • Hacker News Board

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#121

Post by jrs235 » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 12:51 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #89

makotech222 wrote: post #4

Congratulations, you have discovered socialism. Most people find extreme injustice in seeing the value of their labor being stolen by the capitalist class. Socialism is an economic system that does away with the employer-employee distinction and allows all workers to take ownership of their own labor. In practice, this means the democratization of the workplace, and the end to the autocratic workplace. Edit: To actua…

Socialism as you’re portraying it here doesn’t exist, does it? Or can you provide some examples? The model where social democracy works best seems to be the Nordic model, but this is expressly NOT socialism as you’re defining it: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nordic_model So please, where’s this utopia that you’re telling OP is the answer to their problems?

And where it works best also tends to me culturally homogenous with very little diversity.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#122

Post by arximboldi » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 1:28 PM UTC

WaxProlix wrote: post #66

arximboldi wrote: post #32

I felt similarly often, even though I was working for a great company with great products and with a very humane way of working. At some point I just could not stand the worker-owner fundamental power imbalance. There is a lot of pretending in our industry that this conflict does not exist, which often ends up in quite schizophrenic logic. I had to go. And Since I don't want to inflict such pain in other people, beco…

I think I feel very similarly to you in a lot of ways. How did you get started? How do you see a consulting co-operative working? I'd be interested in hearing about your approach, what's worked and what hasn't, etc.

Hey! To you and Amiuba. I did get started into freelancing slowly. I had money saved when I quit my job and I took things slowly. I don't use freelancing websites. For marketing I use conferences, user-conferences and open-source. I am still in a good relationship with my last employer and I do freelance work for them too.

Wrt the coop, one of my motivations is this Spanish open-source coop which has been running for quite a while and does excellent work: https://www.igalia.com/

When doing research on the topic I found this document you may find interesting too "Technology freelancer's guide to starting worker cooperative": https://www.techworker.coop/resources/technology-freelancers...

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#123

Post by golergka » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 1:56 PM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #49

paulmatthijs wrote: post #21

There’s a thing between being entrepeneurship and working for a company: freelancing. It’s for those that feel no attachment to a company, but do have a very developed skill set or trade. In our free market economy, there will always be a system where someone hires you to create value, which costs less than it makes them, in the end. If you want a bigger slice of that pie, you need to make it a viable business case.…

Freelancing by contracting is risky. The company you work for maintains the right to fire you for no reason whatsoever, and you would not be able to earn unemployment. Also, unless you are a particularly skilled employee or are working in a hot market, you probably won't be paid as much after considering the fact that you'll have to pay for your own healthcare, your own liability insurance, do your own taxes, and dea…

> Freelancing by contracting is risky.

Isn't that the point of the OP? He already has low-risk, constant-reward situation and he's sick of it - obviously, he wants more risky, more rewarding scenario.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#124

Post by liquidcool » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:06 PM UTC

amiuba wrote: post #115

liquidcool wrote: post #72

You mention a couple times that your work has a significant impact on the company's sales/revenue. If you can actually quantify the value of your work, you are in a much stronger negotiating position with your employer and others. It is rarely done by engineers and sets you apart. In addition to fair compensation, you mention "stressing over issues." I've noticed more than once that I've been stressed over problems m…

Value provided to my employer is more or less known: they sell my time for about 5x what they pay me (software consultancy). The stress is over issues that the client is pressuring us to solve before a deadline, that usually requires overtime. I always refuse to do overtime, and try to work less rather than more. This creates a situation where my colleagues resent me because it feels like I'm not doing my share since…

Wow, 5X! I have a small consultancy and most engineers are surprised to learn that 2X is typical. I do know some of the large management consulting firms have very high margins, especially on junior programmers, which you're clearly not. Specialist knowledge will also raise rates. But I suspect they have high churn with abuse like that.

Do they have an awesome sales/marketing team, or are those rates typical for your industry? If it's typical, you might consider freelancing. Or finding a small consultancy that will treat you better and take care of sales for you.

I'll say I was once unhappy and asked to be laid off. They told me no, essentially because I was a cash cow. You think your bargaining position is tough, but if your utilization rate is 100% and their margin is 80%, if you leave they are guaranteed to lose at least 160 billable hours (up to 480) while they replace you. I'm assuming you're not in gaming or a glamour industry where there is a line out the door to replace you.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#125

Post by toomuchtodo » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:13 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #98

paulmatthijs wrote: post #21

There’s a thing between being entrepeneurship and working for a company: freelancing. It’s for those that feel no attachment to a company, but do have a very developed skill set or trade. In our free market economy, there will always be a system where someone hires you to create value, which costs less than it makes them, in the end. If you want a bigger slice of that pie, you need to make it a viable business case.…

Egads! I'm so ready to do this. I'm in my late 30s and have been a salaried engineer my entire career. I'm sick of corporate culture and dealing with dysfunctional petty politics. My current environment is particularly depressing. You know the office from the first part of Joe vs the Volcano ? It's kind of like that :| I'll admit, there's an element of risk aversion holding me back. That and I simply can't afford to…

Moonlight. Build customer base and savings cushion. Jump from corporate gig.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#126

Post by ryanwaggoner » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:22 PM UTC

amiuba wrote: post #120

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #31

Public sector employee plus FIRE sounds like a great combo to try. Maybe freelancing too but I think that’s closer to entrepreneurship than some here are willing to admit.

Can you do it though? Public sector men's that you're paid less, a third of your pay is out away in a pension you cant touch until you turn 65 (if it's still there then). I've always wondered about it because I'd rather work at making people's life better and it feels like it's what most of government jobs stand for.

Public sector can actually pay pretty well. It really depends on the job. Top performers can do better in the private market, but money isn’t everything. Maybe OP will need to take a paycut to feel better about life :)

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#127

Post by ydt » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:31 PM UTC

jcadam wrote: post #98

paulmatthijs wrote: post #21

There’s a thing between being entrepeneurship and working for a company: freelancing. It’s for those that feel no attachment to a company, but do have a very developed skill set or trade. In our free market economy, there will always be a system where someone hires you to create value, which costs less than it makes them, in the end. If you want a bigger slice of that pie, you need to make it a viable business case.…

Egads! I'm so ready to do this. I'm in my late 30s and have been a salaried engineer my entire career. I'm sick of corporate culture and dealing with dysfunctional petty politics. My current environment is particularly depressing. You know the office from the first part of Joe vs the Volcano ? It's kind of like that :| I'll admit, there's an element of risk aversion holding me back. That and I simply can't afford to…

I've been doing freelance/contract work since 2004. My advice would be to start by doing hourly contract work through agencies/recruiting firms. It's not glamorous, but it initially saves you from having to worry about sales and collecting the money, perhaps the two most stressful parts of freelancing. You'll get a check every two weeks and develop contacts in different organizations. Find an accountant that specializes in professional services and set yourself up as an LLC and do the work with a corp-to-corp arrangement. Once you get comfortable and have some reliable clients you can cut out the middlemen.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#128

Post by contingencies » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:35 PM UTC

You can become an academic, monk or makerspace operator if you enjoy research and teaching. You can also just take a break to recharge, eg. personally I find bicycle touring to be great. You could find something creative that you enjoy and just work on that until you find a way to channel it in to income, for example through sales or teaching. You could also consider channeling your frustrations in corporate profit allocation to creating new approaches to transparent management practices.

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#129

Post by vfulco » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:38 PM UTC

TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #54

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Or maybe most people just don’t have such a simplistic view of the world? People who advocate for socialism just want the rewards of capitalism without any of the risks.

Well seeing how most Americans haven't been getting the rewards of capitalism(wages have been stagnant since the 70's, regional inequality + healthcare + housing has made the actual COL much higher), it makes perfect sense that people would start pushing for something different.

Shh, no one is supposed to know. --The 1%ers

Re: Ask HN: What to do if you hate working for someone else and arent an entrepreneur?

#130

Post by thirdworlds » Sun, Dec 10, 2017, 3:39 PM UTC

Remote work has been my saviour — infinite travel possibilities, disconnected from the 9–5 monotony, only need to fake enthusiasm for 5–60m a day max. Helps to see the position as purely a means to an end — pays the bills and allows for unbridled freedom.