Written by a true salesman.
Learn to sell
71–80 of 157 posts
Re: Learn to sell
#72One of my first jobs out of college was software sales. Really opened my eyes to the absurdity of that industry. Very wolf of wallstreeet-esque. The tech was mostly repackaged opensource software with a nicer UI and the senior sales guys were doing copious drugs and bringing down like six figure commissions on multi-million dollar contracts. They hired an army of associates to generate leads and then swooped in to gr…
Worked at Oracle for years, the sales cowboys of IT for better or worse.
Sales has improved a lot. A lot of the younger people coming in are much more moral than previous generations.
A lot of sales has moved to inside sales as opposed to field sales. Not quite as fun sometimes, but easier on people’s families and schedules, less abuse of expense accounts, going to strip clubs, etc. Also so much of what inside sales does is recorded, there is the possibility of much more accountability (e.g. harder to lie to customers).
Sales has improved a lot, but I think we’ve traded that for declines in the morals and increases in the absurdity of marketing. Everything from false claims / fake news to serious privacy concerns.
Re: Learn to sell
#73As a sales leader and consultant, I kept being asked to offer weekly personalized sales coaching for technical founders. I launched it a few weeks ago and so far it's been pretty great for both parties. Being able to sit down on a weekly basis to game plan the sales approach, go over calls, and hold them accountable has been immeasurable. p.s. if anyone is interested - I'm in the process of launching a "Selling 101"…
Let me know when you have more info about that "Selling 101" online course. I'm interested.
Re: Learn to sell
#74Earlier quoted context omitted.
Do not accept this as the status quo. It sounds like you live in California? If you're a decent software engineer in any major city in California, you are one of the luckiest people who has ever lived. You have your choice of employers paying you six figures to sit at a desk and push buttons 40 hours per week. If you're overworked and underpaid to the point that what I just said sounds crazy, it sounds like you need…
Despite my rebuttal to the GP stating single people in California are the most taxed in the country, Californians do have a downright oppressive tax structure for upper-middle class high income individuals. Couple that with high cost of living and federal taxes and it's hard to have the same quality of life in San Jose that you can have in Atlanta or Columbus or Minneapolis on half the income or less (and you'll make…
Don't get me wrong, I'm not a fan of high taxes, and I completely agree on upper middle class levels of taxation. The percentage level that a coastal professional making $300k pays is ridiculous, especially in comparison with what some billionaire in Texas is paying. And it's about to get even worse. But I digress.
I lived in SF and NYC and eventually found my way to Nashville, partly for low taxes. However, I'll be moving back to NYC, because despite the ridiculous levels of taxation, I just can't help myself and I'm fortunate to be able to afford it. I'm always looking for ways to manage my tax burden though.
Re: Learn to sell
#75The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…
Take a week off and go travel to India or Africa(Ethiopia, Sahara Morocco, Congo are good candidates) or Tibet. Join some NGO or missionary for helping them. You need perspective in your live to understand how really lucky you are. It is always greener on the other side of the fence. Your life is miserable and the faster you change your track the better for your life. For me it is just obscene hearing you. You are a…
I hate this bullshit. What person ever has been helped by hearing someone tell them how it could be worse or about the "starving children in Africa"?
I'm assuming that your life is 100% awesome and rosy and you never experience any frustration or vent to anyone about your troubles, right? By your own standard, you really shouldn't, because literally billions have it worse than you.
EDIT: I also flagged you for the childish name-calling.
Re: Learn to sell
#76Earlier quoted context omitted.
Nobody is "lucky" to be working long hours. No matter how much they love what they're doing. An engineer making $150k working 60 hour weeks is making $5/hr less than an engineer earning $100k working 36 hour weeks. The latter is literally earning more _for their time_ working half as much for 2/3 the salary. The hourly rate of an engineer earning $250k for 60 hour weeks is the same as an engineer earning $150k for 36…
I'm not a founder but agree with a13n. Working long hours is not the norm for software development. I live in a city 99% of the people here have never heard of, working 40.0 hours a week (not 36, which seems like an odd number to pick), and I'd need to make $330k in San Francisco to have the same standard of living. There are plenty of very well compensated 40-hour-a-week software development jobs available.
I wasn't disagreeing with him saying it's not the norm, I'm disagreeing with his suggestion to the parent to basically 'suck it up, princess'.
36 accounts for time spent eating lunch and taking breaks. It's a good target. It also handles common schedules some folks have of 4x9 and 3x12.
Re: Learn to sell
#77Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.
I would highly recommend "Sales EQ" by Jeb Blount as a first sales book - https://www.amazon.com/dp/B06XFBMZVC/. Does a very god job of outlining the psychology of selling, the psychology of buying, and what needs to go into a successful sales process (without laying out a prescriptive program). Conversational writing style, very rich in information. It will be very useful in improving "non-sales" selling aka presenting, convincing colleagues of things, etc
Though things like New Strategic Sales and Spin Selling are useful, they are not good beginner books - they are technical approaches to developing enterprise sales process, and primarily targeted at professionals in sales management. As a less than exact analogy, Sales EQ is much more like SICP, while Spin selling is like an O'Reilly language reference. I know non-programmers that have gotten a lot out of SICP as the only cs book they have read
Re: Learn to sell
#78> It doesn’t matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys it. Right, because so many people buy Facebook products, or Twitter, or Google... Many, if not most, software products don't sell anything. While there are tons of problems with getting 100% of your revenue from ads, the fact remains that many companies don't have anything to sell to their consumers. Of course, you have to make a good, stic…
Finding companies that this article doesn't apply to doesn't invalidate the article. Everything has to be taken in context. You can apply your own layer of analysis and contextualize it differently. For e.g. Having a hygienic and safe place to work is critical because if an employee doesn't feel safe at work, they won't be able to work as effectively, or stress causes lower productivity, etc, etc.
The primary, unchanging goal of any business anywhere is to stay in business. Sales bring in cash, and cash is king. Nothing else will keep you in business other than cash. All of those companies you mentioned were financed by burning through millions of dollars of somebody else's money. That is not the majority of companies. IMHO, the article makes a lot of sense. I'd rank software development either equal or below sales too. YMMV.
Re: Learn to sell
#79This is really important. I love programming and am somewhat introverted, but being newlywed with a wife who couldn't work (visa), a mortgage, and a commission plan really made me learn to sell. The really good salespeople aren't deceptive, and I luckily learned from them. Also: if you're at a good company the engineers don't scorn the sales people (instead: "you guys bring in the money that pays our salaries") and t…
I've always tried to sit in on a few sales calls at any place I've worked and have encouraged people working for me to do the same. It's valuable to see your products from the Sales team and customer perspective. The surprising thing I've observed is how great sales people spend most of the call listening to problems, not offering solutions.
I always have every member of the exec team attend a sales call per quarter. Yep, even the CFO. Amazing the impact it has on the staff meetings, much less the decisions made.
Re: Learn to sell
#80Does anyone have a recommendation for a good book or an audio/video course on sales for beginners? I'd like to learn this skill in 2018...