Learn to sell • Hacker News Board

Re: Learn to sell

#51

Post by markfer » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:03 PM UTC

moflome wrote: post #47

markfer wrote: post #39

As a sales leader and consultant, I kept being asked to offer weekly personalized sales coaching for technical founders. I launched it a few weeks ago and so far it's been pretty great for both parties. Being able to sit down on a weekly basis to game plan the sales approach, go over calls, and hold them accountable has been immeasurable. p.s. if anyone is interested - I'm in the process of launching a "Selling 101"…

Not sure you saw the 2017 First Round State of Venture survey [6] results, but anxiety over hiring sales staff has become the No. 1 priority for startup founders (was tech staff). I think you're on to something... assuming you focus on startups, maybe Pre-A round? [6] http://stateofstartups.firstround.com/2017/#introduction

Yeah, was definitely interesting to see that. That's exactly the intended focus. Essentially a crash course for tech founders to start selling in their early days.

Re: Learn to sell

#52

Post by cabinguy » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

bluetwo wrote: post #35

hardtke wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always tried to sit in on a few sales calls at any place I've worked and have encouraged people working for me to do the same. It's valuable to see your products from the Sales team and customer perspective. The surprising thing I've observed is how great sales people spend most of the call listening to problems, not offering solutions.

Ding-ding-ding. That's the secret.

That’s right. We like to say “professionals ask questions, amateurs make statements.”

The “sales process” is just a series of questions. The close is the natural ending to a great presentation.

Re: Learn to sell

#53

Post by pathseeker » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

joshwcomeau wrote: post #49

> It doesn’t matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys it. Right, because so many people buy Facebook products, or Twitter, or Google... Many, if not most, software products don't sell anything. While there are tons of problems with getting 100% of your revenue from ads, the fact remains that many companies don't have anything to sell to their consumers. Of course, you have to make a good, stic…

That statement really only applies in the consumer space. Businesses pay for software all of the time and a decent sales team is critical to any B2B software.

Re: Learn to sell

#54

Post by sogen » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:04 PM UTC

peterburkimsher wrote: post #16

tl;dr - Most of the article tries to justify why it's important to Learn to sell. Actionable guidance: "cold calling, sending tons of emails, doing prospect/company research and developing cold leads into warm ones" and get a job in sales ("role", "experience", "career"). My personal project is a Chinese learning page. https://pingtype.github.io I tried sending hundreds of emails, researching all the Chinese language…

Hi Peter, this might sound harsh, but first of all

1.- Get a domain.com to look more professional otherwise if I see "GitHub.io" looks like a code repository Pick a better name for your product. Right now it doesn't mean anything (i.e. dropbox reminds people of storage, submittable.com also sounds like form management, hope you get the idea)

2.- Look at well designed websites (i.e Invision, xero.com, mint.com. stripe.com) and notice the difference.

3.- Copy. There's zero copy. Check mailchimp.com for great voice and tone.

4.- No Pricing info, policy, FAQ, etc.

5.- A short 1-2 minutes explainer Video (optional)

6.- Look at well done explainer videos

7.- The landing page doesn't necessarily have to be all flashy, check this one for a simple one: https://visualping.io

8.- Important: Get feedback from people, I've used this: https://userinput.io/

9.- Also, forget HN, PH, etc., go after offline people or try more creative ways to reach people directly.

Re: Learn to sell

#55

Post by tomxor » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

grasshopperpurp wrote: post #44

tomxor wrote: post #41

> It doesn’t matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys it. That goes both ways. The problems arise when sales start dictating how engineers do their work. The point is you need _both_, and they each need to respect the others work... unless you want to run a company like orcale and milk products into destruction, but then as we know - oracle doesn't invest in the future of their products.

Not a perfect metaphor, because the tasks are so different, but it's kind of like a coach and a GM in football. If they're not on the same page, they make each other look worse.

perhaps not but:

> If they're not on the same page, they make each other look worse

This is right, engineers need to understand the problems that their end users have and of those problems those that severely affect sales should be considered carefully...

however what seems to happen more often is sales or management end up dictating the solution to a problem... but software solutions are software engineers jobs.

This happens to me so commonly but thankfully I do not work in a company with a rigid hierarchy, which means rather than being forced to blindly follow a request I go and find out the context that this request originated from, understand the problem and then propose a suitable solution - everyone is _always_ happier. But this requires autonomy and respect from all members, something that rigid hierarchies appear to sometimes oppress (but then I've only ever been a lucky observer of such institutions so maybe i'm wrong).

Re: Learn to sell

#56

Post by pc86 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

> 7 days a week work for five days pay

Only if you let it. I can count on one hand the numbers of times I've worked on a weekend, and a small fraction of those were not worked into a flex/comp schedule. Maybe 2 in my entire life.

> Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California

Most people get married, so "often" is just wrong. And my wife makes almost exactly what I make (has always been within 5% or so because she gets consistent raises and I job hop a lot). Our take-home went down after we got married. And California is #6[0] so there are 5 states with a total population of over 50 million people (2010 census)[1] with a higher average state+local tax burden. That's close to 1/6 of the country.

> While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work.

In what job are you "often" working 120 hours a week? Hyperbole aside, in what job (that isn't very well compensated) are you often working 70-80?

And software developers are by definition exempt from overtime. It's not some scam that we don't get paid OT. There are many, many, many software dev jobs that are 40.0 hours a week and not a minute more. There are many that aren't. It's a choice which one you have.

> extra taxation when you are unemployed

What is this referring to?

> the life of an engineer is like the life of the slaves who row the [oars] on the Viking ship

Not really.

In case it's not obvious I think the above post is a gross oversimplification and exaggeration of one person's extremely atypical shitty experience.

[0] https://taxfoundation.org/state-local-tax-burden-rankings-fy...

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_U.S._states_and_territ...

Re: Learn to sell

#57

Post by chasedehan » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:09 PM UTC

bluGill wrote: post #31

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Why don't you leave then? There are jobs everywhere. Even in the smallest town in middle on nowhere (say Montana) you can find a job. It might not be a perfect fit for your skills, but you can find one. There are thousands of small towns scattered across the US with some little company that makes something obscure but essential to society. Example: you probably never think about sewage pumps (not the treatment plant,…

>(say Montana)

While most of what you say is true - that there really are jobs everywhere - Montana is actually tough. I really want to move to Montana and have seriously struggled finding something to fit my skills.

The alternative plan is to figure out a remote gig and then truly live wherever you want

Re: Learn to sell

#58

Post by maxpupmax » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:14 PM UTC

madamelic wrote: post #8

Does anyone have any book suggestions for an engineer who wants to learn sales / convincing people? Do you recommend doing trial by fire and getting a sales job? I've realized that I am good at the technicals but terrible at selling why people should do what I say.

Don't read the Dale Carnegie book, read "SPIN Selling" by Neil Rackham and the book "Getting to NO" <- best book on negotiation I've ever read.

Re: Learn to sell

#59

Post by aaavl2821 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:14 PM UTC

joshwcomeau wrote: post #49

> It doesn’t matter how brilliant your software engineering is if no one buys it. Right, because so many people buy Facebook products, or Twitter, or Google... Many, if not most, software products don't sell anything. While there are tons of problems with getting 100% of your revenue from ads, the fact remains that many companies don't have anything to sell to their consumers. Of course, you have to make a good, stic…

A lot of people do buy facebook and google products. Adwords is a product.

I am not familiar with the sales process for google and fb ads, but id imagine, at least in the early days, that there was some handshaking etc involved before people really understood the value of advertising on those platforms

Re: Learn to sell

#60

Post by pc86 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 6:15 PM UTC

ryanwaggoner wrote: post #25

shams93 wrote: post #4

The life of an engineer is a life if sacrifice and 7 days a week work for five days pay. Often you never have a partner so you're the most highly taxed people in the country especially in California. While you often work triple time you're rarely if ever paid for overtime it's taken for granted that you're not ever compensated for 3/4 of the hours you work. Nothing can happen without you but sales people get a piece…

Do not accept this as the status quo. It sounds like you live in California? If you're a decent software engineer in any major city in California, you are one of the luckiest people who has ever lived. You have your choice of employers paying you six figures to sit at a desk and push buttons 40 hours per week. If you're overworked and underpaid to the point that what I just said sounds crazy, it sounds like you need…

Despite my rebuttal to the GP stating single people in California are the most taxed in the country, Californians do have a downright oppressive tax structure for upper-middle class high income individuals. Couple that with high cost of living and federal taxes and it's hard to have the same quality of life in San Jose that you can have in Atlanta or Columbus or Minneapolis on half the income or less (and you'll make much more than half!).

Not to discount the benefits of living in Silicon Valley. If you love the atmosphere and everything then it's probably the right place, and that's worth a certain amount of money. But just looking at the numbers in a spreadsheet it's objectively better to live in a small-to-medium sized city (or even rural area if you can find the work!) if you're looking at take-home pay, savings rate, retirement savings, etc unless you're in a very well-compensated role in one of a few very select corporations.