Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#131

Post by logfromblammo » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:26 PM UTC

throwawayjava wrote: post #86

simook wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic. Matter of fact if everyone drove the actual speed limit we wouldn't have such a bad trafffic problem. Our infranstructure was designed to handle a range of speeds, primarily for the timing systems. When people drive outside those limits, that's when traffic patterns become unpredictable and/or unmanageable. The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers. Bo…

> The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers Bingo. You should be pissed at people who don't drive the speed limit .

Change that to median roadway speed, and I'll be on board. Speed limits are too often set by clueless folk for political concerns, rather than by traffic engineers for maximum throughput for a given safety factor.

There should be some allowance for ensuring that the median speeds of adjacent lanes have a good range separation. I can't even count how many times I have seen a tractor-trailer in the left lane at 70 mph passing a tractor-trailer in the right lane at 69 mph, as passenger cars stack up behind them. It creates a dangerous situation that I can only avoid by slowing down or exiting the roadway.

Speed limits should apply only to the rightmost lane, and additional lanes should be between 5 and 15 mph faster than the current speed of traffic in the lane to their right, regardless of their absolute speed. It makes sense, and it would improve traffic flow, but it can't become law because it would be too complicated for cops to enforce.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#132

Post by notheguyouthink » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:27 PM UTC

vvanders wrote: post #102

notheguyouthink wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

edit : Apparently wanting to see data is offensive to drivers on HN. /shrug

It's not just incident numbers, when you get two slow drivers/semis blocking the lanes you have a large number(10+ cars) that tend to tailgate way under safe following distances. I've seen 5 cars all stacked together under one car length on many occasions. All it takes is one stupid/wrong move and you have a massive pileup. Most of the speeding accidents I've seen along I-5 tend to be single car unless they cross the…

I wouldn't be surprised if unsafe following distances is the #1 cause of accidents on the road, regardless of fast/slow speeds.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#133

Post by trvlngwlbry » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

manyxcxi wrote: post #75

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

Growing up in Oregon I was always annoyed by the slow as hell left lane campers. Having spent a half decade elsewhere and recently moving back it has escalated from annoyance to blood boiling seething rage. When I left Seattle, the state of WA was really making a push to get slowpokes out of the left lane with a media campaign and instituting tickets for people who are slowing traffic down. I LOVE the idea.

I've felt the same way about "slow as hell left lane campers" for years and thought that maybe — if states never did anything to fix it — there might be a commercial solution to fixing this.

The idea I came up with awhile ago was to build a network of motorcyclists willing to attach a sign to the back of their bike, that reads (something like), "You're causing traffic by being in this lane at your speed - please move to right as soon as it's safe to do so." The motorcyclists would make their way in front of the slow left-laner - so that the sign is visible to the slow poke - with the hopes of persuading them to move to the right lane.

Meanwhile, also on the sign would be instructions for the other drivers out there, who witness the value the motorcyclist provided, to send a little micropayment electronically to the motorcyclist as a thank you.

Maybe this takes the form of a grassroots DIY movement where the motorcyclists handle all this themselves, or maybe there's an opportunity for a company to exist that creates the signs and facilitates the micropayments - and in return takes a cut of each micropayment (a la Patreon).

Obviously this assumes that all this can be achieved safely and legally. Thorough testing would have to be done on that front.

Let me know if anyone wants to kick around this idea further - even if just for fun.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#134

Post by stale2002 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:30 PM UTC

revelation wrote: post #122

mulmen wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) GP admitted no wrongdoing, accusation is not proof. 2) Traffic cameras are used to issue more than just red light tickets, speed cameras being another example. 3) TFA is about flaws in those devices that can lead to incorrect accusations on the part of the state employing them.

Driving is a privilege, not a right. What proof are you looking for? And this is a thread about red light cameras. Is this confusing to you? What's the difference in "money grabbiness" between red light cameras and speed cameras? Is someone who disregards the one but not the other qualified to drive? And you seem to have missed it, but this article and the "engineer" isn't even claiming the devices are wrongfully tic…

Just because driving is a privilege, doesn't mean that it is ok for the government to use broken systems that do not accurately catch lawbreakers.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#135

Post by lotsofpulp » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:31 PM UTC

baldfat wrote: post #106

simook wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic. Matter of fact if everyone drove the actual speed limit we wouldn't have such a bad trafffic problem. Our infranstructure was designed to handle a range of speeds, primarily for the timing systems. When people drive outside those limits, that's when traffic patterns become unpredictable and/or unmanageable. The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers. Bo…

We have traffic due to lack of scientific understanding. http://www.science20.com/gerhard_adam/driving_traffic_and_tw... Traffic = Flow Rate (How many cars pass per minute pass a specific point) Traffic Solution is maintain proper distance. 2 seconds in good weather and 4 seconds when hazardous or 10 seconds when extremely unsafe weather/conditions. When people increase the distance between cars during traffic causes…

Thats why at any given speed, there is a maximum capacity of any road that when surpassed causes traffic, i.e. people speeding up and slowing down due to differences in each other's acceleration. This is unavoidable and the only solutions involve increasing everyone's speed, reducing # of vehicles, or making the road bigger.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#136

Post by dredmorbius » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:33 PM UTC

rayiner wrote: post #47

bob_theslob646 wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Seriously, this. It is such bs, since most lawyers are incentivized to take as much time as necessary since they work on an hourly basis.

You can’t change the underlying economics of a market by changing your billing model. All the billing model does is change the risk allocation between the parties. Court cases take a long time because each judge handles hundreds of cases (and civil cases take a back seat to criminal cases). Briefing on a motion, for example, might be done over a few weeks. Then the parties just sit and wait possibly for months for a…

How long has this been the case? Was it ever thus?

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#137

Post by amyjess » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:34 PM UTC

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

rgbrenner wrote: post #2

That's just insulting... the state says they acted unconstitutionally.. so they offered him $500 -- which is just a refund of the fine he already paid -- and asked the court to dismiss the case. After he had to pay 4 years of lawyers fees, take them to court, etc. It's just a big FU, and I have no doubt they won't change a thing if they successfully get the court to dismiss it. If the court allows this, then the stat…

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

If the voting body has the option to vote people into office who will overhaul the state government or vote in amendments to that effect, the illegal actions of the state is 100% the citizens' responsibility. Everyone in the state who is able to vote should be collectively punished severely to give them an incentive to vote to change their government.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#138

Post by jbob2000 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:35 PM UTC

takk309 wrote: post #113

I have been following this story for quite some time and I would like to point a major item that this article misled the reader about. First off, the State Board did not censor what he was saying, they asked him to stop representing himself as an engineer. Järlström initially sent his analysis to the State Board with a letter in-which he referred to himself as an engineer. The Board Responded by requesting that he re…

Does it matter if his points are valid?

I don't need to be a chef to know when the meat is spoiled.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#139

Post by takk309 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:39 PM UTC

Kuiper wrote: post #125

takk309 wrote: post #113

I have been following this story for quite some time and I would like to point a major item that this article misled the reader about. First off, the State Board did not censor what he was saying, they asked him to stop representing himself as an engineer. Järlström initially sent his analysis to the State Board with a letter in-which he referred to himself as an engineer. The Board Responded by requesting that he re…

> he is not allowed to call himself an engineer in such a was as to imply that he is a traffic or transportation engineer. He never claimed to be a traffic or transportation engineer, in fact the fine cited him for use of the phrase "electronics engineer." He is an EE: He has an electrical engineering degree from his home country (Sweden) and he has worked as an electrical engineer for decades. > I am a registered pr…

1> In his initial correspondence with the Board he stated "...I’m already doing thiskind of work..." This was the statement that the board later used as justification for his claim to be an engineer.

2> The practice of engineering is defined in ORS 672.005(1) [1]

3> In the initial communications the board advised him that he should not use the title engineer or refer to himself as an engineer. To which he agreed. Later, he again referred to himself as an engineer.

I would also like to point out that engineering is not a regulated profession in Sweden. No licensure, registration, or certification is offered or required to practice engineering in Sweden. He may very well be qualified and have the knowledge, that doesn't mean he can practice in the US without proper registration.

Please read through the documents that are included with the Motherboard article that I linked in my parent post. All of these points are clearly stated along with copies of the conversations.

[1] https://www.oregonlegislature.gov/bills_laws/ors/ors672.html

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#140

Post by mikepurvis » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 5:41 PM UTC

xigency wrote: post #46

mikepurvis wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He's probably just done with the whole thing at this point, but I suppose he'd have to counter-sue to recover the money? You'd think it would be an easy case— he was unfairly attacked and incurred costs as a result, therefore the entity doing the attacking needs to pony up.

The suit isn't about money. It's about having the law removed as being unconstitutional.

Right, and he "won" in the sense that they apologized for at least this particular instance and refunded the fine. But the GP is saying that it's really a loss because of all the time and money he had to spend fighting it, which I'm saying could probably be recovered with a lawsuit of his own.