Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won • Hacker News Board

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#81

Post by simook » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 3:52 PM UTC

ascendantlogic wrote: post #74

program_whiz wrote: post #55

This is a clear case of using "well intentioned" laws to silence free speech. This supports the libertarian idea that we should reduce the size of government and regulation if possible, because given long enough and enough bureaucrats, fallible humans will exploit whatever mechanisms are available to them. People don't like criticism, especially when the criticism is of their work/policies and potentially threatens t…

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Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#82

Post by Mtinie » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 3:53 PM UTC

For additional reference, here's a previous discussion on HN about this case, linked to a previous Vice Motherboard article:

"Man Fined $500 for Crime of Writing 'I Am an Engineer' in an Email to the Gov't" (April 26, 2017 - 267 comments) https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=14197512

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#83

Post by vvanders » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 3:58 PM UTC

manyxcxi wrote: post #75

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

Growing up in Oregon I was always annoyed by the slow as hell left lane campers. Having spent a half decade elsewhere and recently moving back it has escalated from annoyance to blood boiling seething rage. When I left Seattle, the state of WA was really making a push to get slowpokes out of the left lane with a media campaign and instituting tickets for people who are slowing traffic down. I LOVE the idea.

Yeah, they've started to ticket people for this lately and it's been a god-send.

Since the port shut down in Portland I see so much stupid stuff on I-5 as the increased semi traffic + left-lane campers can turn the 2-3 lanes into a gridlock and cause all sorts of dangerous situations.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#84

Post by throwawayjava » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 3:58 PM UTC

xigency wrote: post #43

I'm interested in this because I know PE exams exist and there are licensing bodies for engineers. But what I've heard from most people is that they are a waste of time and money for someone holding an engineering degree unless you are the person who rubber stamps things at the end. Does someone who knows more about professional engineering know if this law in Oregon is uncommon? Beyond a free speech argument, it see…

> Does someone who knows more about professional engineering know if this law in Oregon is uncommon?

Most every state in the USA has some sort of Professional Engineering law.

But I think there are only one or two states in the US where generic Engineer is a protected title (as opposed to e.g. "Civil Engineer"). So in most of the USA, you can call yourself a "Sales Engineer" and not worry about anyone coming after you.

But it's definitely a much more wide-spread practice in other parts of the world. And even applies to software.

E.g., Microsoft was sued in Canada for referring to holders of one of their technician certifications ("Microsoft Certified (TM)(R)") as engineers.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#85

Post by Buttons840 » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:00 PM UTC

slantyyz wrote: post #78

testvox wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

He is an engineer, changing the title as you suggest makes it sound like he isn't.

>> He is an engineer, changing the title as you suggest makes it sound like he isn't. Is he really though? He has an engineering education, but in Oregon he's not officially an engineer. In a lot of jurisdictions, you can't call yourself an engineer unless you've been certified by the professional body. A Canadian politician had to apologize for calling himself an engineer because he was no longer certified [1]. I ge…

If the goal is to ensure that qualified people are hired then perhaps background checks and validating certifications would be enough without having to make a word illegal to use by the majority of the population.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#86

Post by throwawayjava » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:00 PM UTC

simook wrote: post #80

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic. Matter of fact if everyone drove the actual speed limit we wouldn't have such a bad trafffic problem. Our infranstructure was designed to handle a range of speeds, primarily for the timing systems. When people drive outside those limits, that's when traffic patterns become unpredictable and/or unmanageable. The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers. Bo…

> The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers

Bingo. You should be pissed at people who don't drive the speed limit.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#87

Post by jgh » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:01 PM UTC

program_whiz wrote: post #55

This is a clear case of using "well intentioned" laws to silence free speech. This supports the libertarian idea that we should reduce the size of government and regulation if possible, because given long enough and enough bureaucrats, fallible humans will exploit whatever mechanisms are available to them. People don't like criticism, especially when the criticism is of their work/policies and potentially threatens t…

> This supports the libertarian idea that we should reduce the size of government and regulation if possible, because given long enough and enough bureaucrats, fallible humans will exploit whatever mechanisms are available to them

OTOH a perfectly libertarian system is ripe for the exploitation of fallible humans. Anyway there's a case for moderation here. I don't think shrinking the government to some ineffectual, microscopic or nonexistent size will accomplish what libertarians would hope for. Likewise having an omnipresent behemoth that controls every aspect of life isn't good either.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#88

Post by vvanders » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

simook wrote: post #80

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic. Matter of fact if everyone drove the actual speed limit we wouldn't have such a bad trafffic problem. Our infranstructure was designed to handle a range of speeds, primarily for the timing systems. When people drive outside those limits, that's when traffic patterns become unpredictable and/or unmanageable. The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers. Bo…

> Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic.

The parent never said that.

When you merge on onto the freeway to need to merge at the fucking speed of traffic.

I've been in so many cases stuck behind a clueless oregon driver merging onto I-5(70mph) at 35-40mph while there's a fucking semi bearing down on us 1/4-1/8th of a mile away.

It's goddamn dangerous and putting people in situations where someone is going to get killed.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#89

Post by walshemj » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:02 PM UTC

patcheudor wrote: post #59

xigency wrote: post #43

I'm interested in this because I know PE exams exist and there are licensing bodies for engineers. But what I've heard from most people is that they are a waste of time and money for someone holding an engineering degree unless you are the person who rubber stamps things at the end. Does someone who knows more about professional engineering know if this law in Oregon is uncommon? Beyond a free speech argument, it see…

These are very popular laws in the US with every state having some level of certification requirement for certain professions. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Regulation_and_licensure_in_en...

Including FFS Estate Agents (Relators)

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#90

Post by notheguyouthink » Fri, Dec 08, 2017, 4:03 PM UTC

simook wrote: post #80

ajmurmann wrote: post #51

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

Going faster does not improve the speed of traffic. Matter of fact if everyone drove the actual speed limit we wouldn't have such a bad trafffic problem. Our infranstructure was designed to handle a range of speeds, primarily for the timing systems. When people drive outside those limits, that's when traffic patterns become unpredictable and/or unmanageable. The slow drivers are no different than the fast drivers. Bo…

Agreed completely. Furthermore, imo the worst are slow mergers and lane weavers. On both counts they're entering lanes of traffic at wildly different speeds, which not only creates more traffic but puts everyone at risk.

I don't mind speeding in the left lane if they're at a reasonable speed above their immediate right lane. If they're going 30 over what the one-right lane is going it's quite hazardous. Yet so many people feel justified. Selfish.