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Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

washingtonpost.com

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Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#61

Post by JackFr »

xigency wrote: post #43

I'm interested in this because I know PE exams exist and there are licensing bodies for engineers. But what I've heard from most people is that they are a waste of time and money for someone holding an engineering degree unless you are the person who rubber stamps things at the end. Does someone who knows more about professional engineering know if this law in Oregon is uncommon? Beyond a free speech argument, it see…

It seems reasonable to me, in so far as projects for building structures (private and public), roads, bridges, dams, etc. are public safety issues. They should have plans which have been approved by someone who has been certified as having a professional level of competence.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#62

Post by bbarn »

kayfox wrote: post #5

I can see how the State of Oregon would be annoyed that an unlicensed environmental engineer would be touting his engineering credentials when arguing with licensed civil engineers, especially since the State of Oregon licenses engineers. Engineering is a field where if you mess up, people may die, so just as we license doctors, we license engineers.

Most engineers I know welcome dissenting opinions - especially those based on facts. If I wrote the code that issued tickets, and someone pointed out a math problem, I would thank that person and get it fixed.

This has NOTHING to do with engineering credibility, calls to authority, or anything else. It's entirely to do with revenues being impacted and potentially having to pay out past revenues if it gets enough public attention. This is about politicians trying to find a way to silence someone.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#63

Post by Chris2048 »

salvar wrote: post #29
mulle_nat wrote: post #6

The two biggest dangers in life: scorned women and inconvenienced bureaucracies.

And people wonder why women feel alienated and unwelcome in the technical world.

And this still will if they resist cherry picking their evidence.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#64

Post by larrydag »

This might actually be a bigger deal than people realize. This sets a precedence of being able to submit engineering publications and work without being licensed. Sure you can't still perform commercial or public engineering works unless licensed but you can speak publicly on technical matters.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#65

Post by uniformlyrandom »

ajmurmann wrote: post #51
rgbrenner wrote: post #2

That's just insulting... the state says they acted unconstitutionally.. so they offered him $500 -- which is just a refund of the fine he already paid -- and asked the court to dismiss the case. After he had to pay 4 years of lawyers fees, take them to court, etc. It's just a big FU, and I have no doubt they won't change a thing if they successfully get the court to dismiss it. If the court allows this, then the stat…

Most annoyingly, as someone who lives in Oregon I don't want to pay for this. I certainly want the poor guy who tried to fix something broken to be hugely compensated. However, I want whoever did this to pay for it. I also want then to stop focusing traffic tickets on speeding and instead fine people who cause traffic jams by not accelerating when entering the freeway or go unnecessary slow. But well that's of course…

> most native Oregonians would be fine constantly because they drive insanely slow

And this is why they do not want you to drive slow. The difference of speed between cars is what causes accidents. This is why speed limits are raised based on 90th percentile speeds. And this is why everyone in California drives 80 in 65, and CHP are apparently OK with that.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#66

Post by [deleted] »

larrydag wrote: post #64

This might actually be a bigger deal than people realize. This sets a precedence of being able to submit engineering publications and work without being licensed. Sure you can't still perform commercial or public engineering works unless licensed but you can speak publicly on technical matters.

[deleted]

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#67

Post by islanderfun »

TomK32 wrote: post #32
tonylemesmer wrote: post #3

I hate hearing tales of how public bodies waste taxpayers money fighting cases like this instead of focussing on the actual issues themselves. Even if the public body had done nothing in this case it would have been better than suing him.

Admitting failure is extremely hard for any human, wether it is such cases or infrastructure projects that took decades of planning and discussion: no one wants to admit that they followed the wrong path.

I can't agree with this more. It really holds us back (since the beginning). From school boards, local government, and even HOAs. Humans are so prideful, they rather find ways to defend their wrong decision than fix the underlying issue.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#68

Post by uniformlyrandom »

larrydag wrote: post #64

This might actually be a bigger deal than people realize. This sets a precedence of being able to submit engineering publications and work without being licensed. Sure you can't still perform commercial or public engineering works unless licensed but you can speak publicly on technical matters.

It shocks me that we literally have a license to speak about some matters in some states, and some people are OK with that.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#69

Post by jostmey »

larrydag wrote: post #64

This might actually be a bigger deal than people realize. This sets a precedence of being able to submit engineering publications and work without being licensed. Sure you can't still perform commercial or public engineering works unless licensed but you can speak publicly on technical matters.

So what? I don't want to live in a society governed by titles. Real talent doesn't need to rely on titles. I have titles but so what?

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#70

Post by larrydag »

jostmey wrote: post #69
larrydag wrote: post #64

This might actually be a bigger deal than people realize. This sets a precedence of being able to submit engineering publications and work without being licensed. Sure you can't still perform commercial or public engineering works unless licensed but you can speak publicly on technical matters.

So what? I don't want to live in a society governed by titles. Real talent doesn't need to rely on titles. I have titles but so what?

I wasn't speaking of titles. I was speaking of submitting technical work on engineering related ideas. Typically this is highly regulated under U.S. state laws.
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