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Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

washingtonpost.com

31–40 of 325 posts

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#31

The two biggest dangers in life: scorned women and inconvenienced bureaucracies.

In this day and age, often the same. The older I get, the more I understand Turner's thesis on the frontier. Without a frontier, ambitious people turn into ever-more specialized rentiers, trying to squeeze the golden goose as hard as they can before it dies. Seasteading, space, personal nanomachine universal constructors, or bust. Otherwise I'd welcome the destruction of, to paraphrase Nietzsche, the insane asylum of…

So what comment of mine tripped the downvote sensors? The first line was somewhat of a half joke, half truth. Have you ever dealt with HR and interoffice politics?

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#32

I hate hearing tales of how public bodies waste taxpayers money fighting cases like this instead of focussing on the actual issues themselves. Even if the public body had done nothing in this case it would have been better than suing him.

Admitting failure is extremely hard for any human, wether it is such cases or infrastructure projects that took decades of planning and discussion: no one wants to admit that they followed the wrong path.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#33

Out of curiosity (and not really related to the article) but I’m kind of surprised to hear there is a formula for calculating how long(?) yellow lights are on and that it relates to a red light camera. AFAIK those cameras are hooked into the control system and only activate when the light is red, which seems like a pretty binary decision. Can someone shed some light on this?

The yellow light provides a period when drivers know the light is going to go red soon, all else being equal this light should be set to stay on for just long enough for drivers in properly maintained cars, who drive at legal speeds, to see it and all either come to a stop or pass the intersection before the light turns red. Typically formulas care about the allowed speed of cars, the expected braking capability of a car that's allowed on the road, the gradient (down hill it's hard to stop quickly!) and other factors, plus the size of the junction (a huge junction can't change as quickly because it takes time to cross the junction).

That is, Sally is doing 40mph in a 40mph zone, she sees the light turn yellow, and she's very close to the junction so she just keeps going, everything is fine. Bob is doing 25mph in a 55mph zone, he's some distance from the lights, they turn yellow, Bob stops normally as the lights turn red.

With red light cameras providing revenue there is an incentive to cut that time too short. Now Sally finds the light turned red earlier and she got a ticket. So next time Sally won't make that mistake, as soon as the light goes yellow she slams on the anchors, and somebody goes straight in the back of her - there's a traffic accident even though we invented these lights to reduce accidents. Oops.

Now a _good_ government would resist the temptation. They would set the formula to reduce crashes. But money is very tempting. Shaving a second off the time, getting $1M of extra revenue and oops smashing up a thousand people's cars, that's a good deal so long as you aren't paying for all those car repairs...

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#34

The two biggest dangers in life: scorned women and inconvenienced bureaucracies.

Why are scorned men not as big of a danger as a scorned women? A scorned man might kill you, might go on a killing spree, might shoot up a school (elementary or college).

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#35
post #5

I can see how the State of Oregon would be annoyed that an unlicensed environmental engineer would be touting his engineering credentials when arguing with licensed civil engineers, especially since the State of Oregon licenses engineers. Engineering is a field where if you mess up, people may die, so just as we license doctors, we license engineers.

Traffic engineering is an area where people will die even when the work is compliant with standards and guidance. Some external scurtiny is exactly what the industry needs.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#36

Out of curiosity (and not really related to the article) but I’m kind of surprised to hear there is a formula for calculating how long(?) yellow lights are on and that it relates to a red light camera. AFAIK those cameras are hooked into the control system and only activate when the light is red, which seems like a pretty binary decision. Can someone shed some light on this?

I'm sure the cameras are integrated into the control system. I believe problem is with the timing of the yellow light. If I made a light yellow 0.5 seconds on a road where people are traveling 35 mph, it wouldn't be possible for cars to stop.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The best tool in any court case is time.

Seriously, this. It is such bs, since most lawyers are incentivized to take as much time as necessary since they work on an hourly basis.

Umm no. Not all lawyers. They do take time because they want to win. And sometimes they have to be sure as some cases can be complicated.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#39

The whole business of red light cameras is pretty dubious to begin with. It seems more like a tool local municipalities use to tax through traffic rather than a means of protecting public safety. https://www.npr.org/sections/thetwo-way/2013/08/13/211723717...

Of course it’s a way to raise revenue without using the ballot box.

Re: Oregon punished an engineer for criticizing red-light cameras. He fought and won

#40

Hey guys, can we correct the title? It should be "Oregon punished man for Engineer claim, after criticizing their red-light cameras. He fought and won". The current title is very misleading.

I fail to see what's incorrect about the title. The fine was for publishing a technical report about red-light cameras while not being a licensed engineer. You're making it seem like they are unrelated events.
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