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The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

theguardian.com

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Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#291

Post by EdSharkey »

dragonwriter wrote: post #280
EdSharkey wrote: post #213

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> But Hillary wasn't a liberal. I don't know why you're bringing her up. You're using the term 'liberal', but I haven't got a clue what people mean when they say that anymore. What's your definition? You say what Hillary is not, but you don't say what she is. I don't separate her in any way from the Democrats politically - at least those who hold power currently - not the rank-and-file of course. > We are now in the…

> Democrats are losing seats everywhere, have not been grooming enough replacements for the old-timers, and won't shake the loser 60's radical ideology Uh, the Democrats never, as a national party, had a “60s radical ideology”, and since the 1990s have been a solidly pro-big-business center-right neoliberal party barely distinguishable from late 1980s Republicans but for some equal rights stands; that's weakened a bi…

Black Lives Matter seems very throwback racial politics to me. Is that a DNC thing, specifically? No, but clearly there's an embrace of the movement in order to secure their votes and energy. So yes, as a national party, democrats are all about griping for oppressed minority groups.

60's radical ideology is what I understand stems from the Marxist shift from class struggle to oppressed identity groups in the 60's as a means of staying relevant. Here's a discussion about this phenomena on Wikipedia:

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left

This is cultural Marxism. This brand of politics is pessimistic, negative, divisive and wicked by nature. It foments discontent. And notice that it only seeks to lift the oppressed minorities up by bringing the oppressive majority down! Sounds like typical democrat rhetoric to me.

60's boomers' clock is ticking, the radical ideas just fading away to obscurity now... Time for some fresh thinking on the left.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#292

Post by simplicio »

panzagl wrote: post #72
simplicio wrote: post #43

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I mean, inheriting a farm is inheriting a lot of money. Were family farmers perfectly rational economic actors, they'd presumably sell their inherited farm and use the proceeds to buy one more suited to the newer, locally grown, organic type farms that are more insulated from the economies of scale that are driving them out of business. But obviously people aren't such rational actors, and farmers have emotional atta…

Selling a farm isn't like selling a house, you can go years with no offers.

Real agricultural land prices have been on a relatively steady increase since the mid-80's (which further suggests the issues with family farms are due to economies of scale crowding out family farmers, rather than farming itself being unprofitable). So I'm skeptical they're that difficult to unload, especially given that inheriting a farm probably isn't something that catches many people by surprise.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#293

Post by addicted »

moduspol wrote: post #240
DannyB2 wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wonder how they see taxes as thrown away? Yes, government is inefficient. And corrupt. But you do need roads. And bridges. And law enforcement. And even military protection, even if it seems far away and remote from your farm.

Did you see the thread here literally yesterday about taxes becoming higher for upper-middle class earners in blue states? Why didn't they get asked why they don't want roads? I feel like this comes up any time someone does something to avoid paying taxes, as if that necessarily means they want no government at all. They (the farmers) will see no appreciable difference whether they pay the tax or buy the tractor, so…

Because upper middle class earners in blue states, and blue states in general, already pay out more in taxes than they get back. Rural areas don’t.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#294

Post by addicted »

dsfyu404ed wrote: post #239
nitrogen wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This gets brought up a lot on Hacker News as if it's a bad thing. One, I doubt it's as universally true as people think (I'd wager that in Utah, say, an equal chunk of taxes comes from suburban as urban areas), and two, people who can't afford the cities need places to live and those who can need places to vacation and buy food.

The city slickers don't want to cut checks to a bunch of hicks and the rednecks don't want to give their money to the city slickers and neither wants the other telling them what to do but our tax system ensures that they can't stay out of each other's business.

Except the “city slickers” have been cutting checks to the “hicks and rednecks” for decades, and furthermore, the “hicks and rednecks” vote against this and rail on the “city slickers”for doing so, while simultaneously falsely believing they cut chekcks to the “city slickers” and also complaining about any time their checks from the “city slickers”are reduced (try campaigning in Iowa on a platform of reducing farm subsidies).

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#295

Post by moduspol »

addicted wrote: post #293
moduspol wrote: post #240

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Did you see the thread here literally yesterday about taxes becoming higher for upper-middle class earners in blue states? Why didn't they get asked why they don't want roads? I feel like this comes up any time someone does something to avoid paying taxes, as if that necessarily means they want no government at all. They (the farmers) will see no appreciable difference whether they pay the tax or buy the tractor, so…

Because upper middle class earners in blue states, and blue states in general, already pay out more in taxes than they get back. Rural areas don’t.

Parent point: Why do farmers see taxes paid as providing no value to them? Don't they want roads?

My point: Nobody wants to pay taxes they don't have to, and farmers are no different from upper-middle class blue state residents in that regard. It doesn't mean they literally don't want roads.

That blue state residents already pay more in taxes than they get back is irrelevant. Nobody wants to pay more in taxes, and that doesn't mean nobody wants roads.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#296

Post by ethbro »

Spooky23 wrote: post #254
nradov wrote: post #247

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The concept of farmland being "for sale" at all seems bizarre. This isn't someone's home. Raw land is effectively always for sale, just contact the owner and make an unsolicited offer. Is this just a psychological issue of people being attached to certain parcels or is there some other factor?

No way. Land has low carrying cost and people will sit on it for years to speculate or hold neighbors hostage.

Part of this is that a lot of states have agricultural exemptions or lower rates for farmland. Even if it's not effectively farmed. Or McMansions in the countryside exploiting the same law via what my dad called "Noah's Ark farms" (just two of every animal).

So yes, if you want to game the system and sit on land, there's little tax incentive to sell it.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#297

Post by JoeAltmaier »

tresil wrote: post #248
JoeAltmaier wrote: post #71

I'll guess: depression, isolation, uncertainty, one paycheck a year (when the harvest comes in), physical danger and health risks.

Yeah, I'm curious if isolation isn't a key here. As technological advancements have enabled farmers to manage more and more land, they are getting more and more spread out. Social isolation has psychological and real physiological impacts on wellbeing.

and hardly any hired hands any more - they work alone

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#298

Post by mattrices »

mistermann wrote: post #268
froindt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's land in the middle of nowhere. If you're near a city you can get a nice premium as the suburbs expand. 4x is a bit extreme (been a long time since it was that much). But it's expensive. In the middle of nowhere there have been quite a number of land sales with $10k+/acre in the past handful of years. Farmland prices have been kinda crazy over the last 5-10 years. As a quick example of some math: * Rent prices…

What a strange world.....farmland prices in Canada are about a tenth of that, whereas if anything land prices for housing are typically at least double what they would be in the US (roughly adjusting for earning potential). Maybe we're just on opposite ends of a pendulum.

Canadian farmland has less potential value due to the reduced light and lower temperatures of the northern climate.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#299

Post by mistermann »

mattrices wrote: post #298
mistermann wrote: post #268

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What a strange world.....farmland prices in Canada are about a tenth of that, whereas if anything land prices for housing are typically at least double what they would be in the US (roughly adjusting for earning potential). Maybe we're just on opposite ends of a pendulum.

Canadian farmland has less potential value due to the reduced light and lower temperatures of the northern climate.

True, but 5 to 7 times difference, all things considered? That seems fairly unlikely.

Re: The suicide rate for farmers in the U.S. is more than double that of veterans

#300

Post by mistermann »

kfcm wrote: post #274
froindt wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's land in the middle of nowhere. If you're near a city you can get a nice premium as the suburbs expand. 4x is a bit extreme (been a long time since it was that much). But it's expensive. In the middle of nowhere there have been quite a number of land sales with $10k+/acre in the past handful of years. Farmland prices have been kinda crazy over the last 5-10 years. As a quick example of some math: * Rent prices…

Wow! I wish I could have gotten that price for my corn last year. You quoted the price for beans, not corn. Corn averaged 3.40 over the year (currently, around $3.05 cash, not CBOT). That means it was about $640/acre for income. And that's assuming 203 bushels for all farmland. 180 is a better rule of thumb. Of course, when a bag of seed corn is selling for $275-300+...not to mention input costs of equipment, fuel, f…

As someone who obviously knows the business, what's your take on the price of land, based on historic prices and on economics?
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