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Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

theguardian.com

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Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#41

Post by pc86 »

klondike_ wrote: post #37
MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

Cuba seems to be cooperating with the US during the investigation. Perhaps it was a false flag attack?

Doesn't "false flag" in this scenario indicate the US did this to its own diplomats, in order to frame Cuba (to what end?). I think it's much more like that's it's a third party, either without Cuban knowledge or a don't-ask-don't-tell type of thing. Probably without Cuban knowledge. As others have said, Cuba has very, very little to gain from something like this and a lot to lose.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#42

Post by blattimwind »

QAPereo wrote: post #9
mccoyspace wrote: post #3

This is such a fascinating (and disturbing) situation. And quite mysterious. High frequency ultrasound is used routinely in medicine and has never been shown to change brain tissue. Infrasound has some effect on tissue but its probably overstated. (the infamous 'brown note' [1]. Other sonic weapons rely on volume/amplitude. None of this seems to be the case here. Another really interesting point is the description of…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.

There is an actual recording of these sounds. Microwaves inducing sounds into a humans perception and at the same time inducing it in recording equipment does not seem plausible.

There is also an easy way to test whether the sound is actual sound conducted in air or the effect of microwave exposure: ear plugs.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#43

Post by linsomniac »

staplers wrote: post #25
acdanger wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

True. But it's also possible that this a deliberate attack carried out by an actor other than the Cuban government.

Like some other government that has historically carried out anti-US operations in Cuba..

Do you mean America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#44

Post by mturmon »

GVIrish wrote: post #27
MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

Cuba has been a long time ally of Russia, and Russia has been aggressively trying to reassert their power on the world stage. The other thing is, that a large part of the spy game is that intelligence agents often work out of embassies. The way the game is played is that as long as intelligence personnel stay in their lane, there's no trouble. The US has spies working out of embassies around the world, and foreign in…

And it's worth mentioning the possibility that even though the current Cuban leadership might not have allowed external entities to try this, elements within the government, or powerful elements within the society, might benefit from a reversion to the previous status quo.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#45

Post by dboreham »

MengerSponge wrote: post #8
eqmvii wrote: post #7

This story is weird and getting weirder, but the important context is how eclectic electronic surveillance is common at diplomatic facilities. It’s possible if not probable that the injuries were a side effect of some other weird electronic espionage effort, rather than the direct objective.

I wonder if the injuries are consistent with the "microwave transmitter" theory that's been floated.

You'd think that anything involving non-ionizing EM radiation would produce symptoms consistent with...cooking.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#47

Post by wybiral »

linsomniac wrote: post #43
staplers wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Like some other government that has historically carried out anti-US operations in Cuba..

Do you mean America? https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

That was a rejected proposal.

(There are probably all kinds of crazy military proposals that get rejected)

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#48

Post by wybiral »

cambaceres wrote: post #34

Maybe CIA were testing their new weapon? Diplomats working in Cuba would be the perfect subjects of those tests. CIA would be able to question the victims about the experience and get access to medical records without raising suspicions.

I find it difficult to believe that the CIA would authorize an experiment that causes brain damage in our own active diplomats.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#49

Post by dgut »

While the media continues to spread bold claims and sensational articles lacking any facts, a Cuban panel of scientists has concluded the diplomats likely experienced a "collective psychogenic disorder". Stress can change the ratio between white and grey matter in the brain. Currently, there exists only one single publication of the report. [1]

I'd also expect the crowd at HN to be better educated than to jump to quick and baseless conclusions. Almost all comments assert a form of attack happened, acoustic and whatnot, despite the lack of details, the crowd's inexpertise in the field, and doubting comments made by actual experts (see Joseph Pompei, Jürgen Altmann). Speculating and guessing isn't very useful.

That said, I've visited Cuba and the respective areas (Atabey and Miramar) where the diplomats usually reside and it's a mystery to me how anybody could carry such an operation without anybody noticing any suspicious activity. The area is inhabited by ordinary Cubans and houses tend to be relatively close to each other. To get an idea here is an American diplomat holding a Yard sale before leaving the country: http://cdn.havanatimes.org/wp-content/uploads/2017/10/Yard-s...

[1] http://www.sciencemag.org/news/2017/12/stressful-conditions-...

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#50

Post by gh02t »

gm-conspiracy wrote: post #36
lazerpants wrote: post #20

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But generating that much energy requires a huge piece of equipment. For example, the unit used for the ablative technique you linked to is quite large and works only at very short distances. [image of device] https://www.israel21c.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/03/insight...

What about multiple devices where their respective waves converge at a specific point?

It'd be awfully difficult to precisely position and aim multiple transmitters discreetly.
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