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Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

theguardian.com

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Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#21

Post by cuckcuckspruce »

acdanger wrote: post #15
MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

True. But it's also possible that this a deliberate attack carried out by an actor other than the Cuban government.

Or ginning up something to beat the drums of war like the USS Madox[1] or USS Maine[2]. I think it would be hasty to rule out something like Operation Northwoods[3] given the current president's position on Cuba.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gulf_of_Tonkin_incident

[2] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/USS_Maine_(ACR-1)

[3] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Operation_Northwoods

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#22

Post by ImSkeptical »

MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

The perpetrators are repeatedly performing an activity that hurts specific targets. It's hard not to consider this an attack.

I agree that it's probably not Cuba itself doing it though. My own suspects, based on nothing but wild speculation, is that this is Russia, rogue elements in Cuba, China, or the CIA testing experimental technology.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#23

Post by ImSkeptical »

kurthr wrote: post #11
rdtsc wrote: post #4

> As Cuba works to limit damage to its reputation and economy, its government has produced TV specials and an online summit about its own investigation. I guess if is deliberate, it might be interesting to look who would benefit from it? It hurts American diplomats but it also hurts Cuba's position. Would stand to benefit from Cuba looking bad or from hurting the improved relationship between Cuba and US. There was t…

What's interesting is that we don't even know if this is a screw-up or intentional (and it could be both since multiple parties are involved). It really doesn't seem like an acoustic effect (as raised in the article) and may well be a modulated microwave since that would correspond both to the locality of the "noise" and brain effects. Or it could simply be very high powered. http://www.newsweek.com/russia-us-attack-…

The problem with this analysis is: what does Russia gain by doing this with a sonic mystery weapon? If Russia wanted to divide the US and Cuba by attacking diplomats, wouldn't a sniper be simpler and less obvious? Or paying some Cuban Nationals to physically attack diplomatic staff? Or just use of any known weapon/tool.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#24

Post by rootw0rm »

QAPereo wrote: post #9
mccoyspace wrote: post #3

This is such a fascinating (and disturbing) situation. And quite mysterious. High frequency ultrasound is used routinely in medicine and has never been shown to change brain tissue. Infrasound has some effect on tissue but its probably overstated. (the infamous 'brown note' [1]. Other sonic weapons rely on volume/amplitude. None of this seems to be the case here. Another really interesting point is the description of…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.

Exactly what I was thinking of too. The company that created MEDUSA (WaveBand Corp) was awarded a DoD grant in 2005 for a 3m^2 "Millimeter Wave Profiling Deployable Dosimeter".

https://www.sbir.gov/sbirsearch/detail/349546

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#25

Post by staplers »

acdanger wrote: post #15
MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

True. But it's also possible that this a deliberate attack carried out by an actor other than the Cuban government.

Like some other government that has historically carried out anti-US operations in Cuba..

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#26

Post by adventured »

MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

Actually in this case, the US has been impressively measured in its response toward Cuba when it comes to framing it as an attack by the Cuban Government.

The US Government has so far never said or implied that it was the Cuban Government. For at least two reasons: it's obvious they have a lot to lose, and it's questionable whether they have the capability to pull off that attack.

It's very reasonable to frame it as an attack. It was highly targeted at US embassy staff (and one Canadian was harmed I believe). I've seen no major media sources pushing the line that it was likely Cuba.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#27

Post by GVIrish »

MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

Cuba has been a long time ally of Russia, and Russia has been aggressively trying to reassert their power on the world stage.

The other thing is, that a large part of the spy game is that intelligence agents often work out of embassies. The way the game is played is that as long as intelligence personnel stay in their lane, there's no trouble. The US has spies working out of embassies around the world, and foreign intelligence services have spies working in embassies in DC.

But for an adversary like Russia, maybe they would try to attack people on diplomatic passports if they knew there were some way to make it untraceable or covert. Cuba might do the same if they felt they could thwart US spying.

Note that there was also an alleged incident like this at the US embassy in Uzbekistan:

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-5126383/US-embassy-w...

State Dept. denies it, but if there is an intelligence angle to this, denials would be standard.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#28

Post by dougmany »

GVIrish wrote: post #27
MsMowz wrote: post #14

I think it's interesting that this was immediately framed as an "attack," with of course the implication being that the Cuban government attacked American diplomats, since Cuba has so much to lose from attacking diplomats and literally nothing to gain.

Cuba has been a long time ally of Russia, and Russia has been aggressively trying to reassert their power on the world stage. The other thing is, that a large part of the spy game is that intelligence agents often work out of embassies. The way the game is played is that as long as intelligence personnel stay in their lane, there's no trouble. The US has spies working out of embassies around the world, and foreign in…

I was just reading an article about how Justin Trudeau connected with North Korea through Cuba. Maybe North Korea is involved.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#29

Post by robg »

QAPereo wrote: post #9
mccoyspace wrote: post #3

This is such a fascinating (and disturbing) situation. And quite mysterious. High frequency ultrasound is used routinely in medicine and has never been shown to change brain tissue. Infrasound has some effect on tissue but its probably overstated. (the infamous 'brown note' [1]. Other sonic weapons rely on volume/amplitude. None of this seems to be the case here. Another really interesting point is the description of…

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.

Hey rootw0rm, all of your comments are autodead. Not sure what you did to deserve it, but this comment is additive here. Contact the admin to have rights restored.

Re: Brain abnormalities found in victims of US embassy attack in Cuba

#30

Post by [deleted] »

robg wrote: post #29
QAPereo wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Microwave_auditory_effect This is the best bet I've seen since this story broke.

Hey rootw0rm, all of your comments are autodead. Not sure what you did to deserve it, but this comment is additive here. Contact the admin to have rights restored.

[deleted]
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