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Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

theguardian.com

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Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#211

Post by herbst »

toomanybeersies wrote: post #49
andrewstuart wrote: post #41

Portugal’s policy is deeply flawed because it does not legalize the sale of all drugs, only the consumption. When selling is legal is when organized crime leaves the picture, taxes can be collected, product is clean and measured and of quality. Both sides of the equation are important to legalize, doing one without the other means huge problems remain.

I don't think that something as harmful as heroin should be legal to sell, even in a taxed and regulated scenario. Other options that, in my amateur opinion, would be better, would be to more heavily penalise adultered drugs, or to have pharmacies supply, with a prescription, addictive drugs, but only to addicts. The latter idea is basically an extension of safe injection clinics.

Pharma grade heroin from the state is a thing in Switzerland. It works pretty well actually and turned a big problem into a small controlled one. Most addicts even have normal jobs.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#212

Post by DanBC »

Noos wrote: post #82

Probably because it would be a massive cost, on the level of a nationwide program to eliminate homelessness. And the portugal model doesn't seem to really wean people off drugs, unlike homelessness, so it's just endless money being funneled into maintaining addicts, which in time will keep growing since drug use is legal. We'd probably run out of money if we tried.

It costs considerably less than the current war on drugs, which is both expensive and ineffective.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#213

Post by msg3 »

adventured wrote: post #148
msg3 wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No.

Please enlighten as to what would qualify as a wave of crime then, in your opinion. A 600% increase in acid attacks? A 200% increase in gun offenses? A 70% increase in knife crimes?

Something not based on cherry-picking statistics.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#214

Post by herbst »

yznovyak wrote: post #151
Marazan wrote: post #140

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well, then there's the issue that Singapore's approach doesn't actually stop drug abuse in Singapore.

Care to provide any source for your claim? Here's mine: http://www.worldlifeexpectancy.com/cause-of-death/drug-use/b... Singapore has 0.18 drug related deaths per 100k population. With a population of ~5.6 million people this means 10 deaths per year for whole country. In comparison Portugal has 3x higher drug related death rate. Regarding executions you can check wikipedia: > However, since the 2010s, execution has…

Clean water tests would be a better example for your point. Or something to that degree. Less death rate could just mean other preferred drugs or even just cleaner ones.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#215

Post by [deleted] »

ueushzvzis wrote: post #210
alkonaut wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not follow. If the ban didn't actually lessen the number of handguns, then we don't have the left hand side of the implication! These are two things: ban on handguns -> less handguns less handguns -> fewer deaths Someone argued that the second is true, and you seem to refute it by saying the first isn't. So maybe you aren't talking about the same thing. I'm going to argue that the second thing isn't contr…

Fewer guns does not equal fewer deaths in the developed world. You are doing exactly what you claim to be against. Cherry picking data to suit your narrative.

[deleted]

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#216

Post by daemin »

ueushzvzis wrote: post #210
alkonaut wrote: post #166

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> This does not follow. If the ban didn't actually lessen the number of handguns, then we don't have the left hand side of the implication! These are two things: ban on handguns -> less handguns less handguns -> fewer deaths Someone argued that the second is true, and you seem to refute it by saying the first isn't. So maybe you aren't talking about the same thing. I'm going to argue that the second thing isn't contr…

Fewer guns does not equal fewer deaths in the developed world. You are doing exactly what you claim to be against. Cherry picking data to suit your narrative.

Yeah it does, Australia. That's the prime example of fewer guns = fewer deaths.

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#219

Post by hansbo »

ueushzvzis wrote: post #207
toomanybeersies wrote: post #50

This scenario doesn't just happen with drug policy, but with practically any divisive policy discussion. People will debate something that is done elsewhere, and ignore completely that it's done elsewhere. Gay marriage is a prime example, as it's something that has been legalised in a lot of countries now. Every time a country goes through the process of debating whether to legalise gay marriage, there's a bunch of p…

It's interesting how you do the same thing you get mad about other people doing. You say that less guns equals less gun deaths... well duh. Then you go on to say less handguns equals less deaths and this actually isn't true. As it stands, in the developed world more guns does not equate to more violence or more deaths. Obviously there are more deaths due to guns because people have access to them but the argument tha…

After quick research, this seems to be incorrect. Non-gun homicides are unaffected, but total homicides increase.

https://www.hsph.harvard.edu/hicrc/firearms-research/guns-an...

Re: Portugal’s radical drug policy is working. Why hasn’t the world copied it?

#220

Post by herbst »

taneq wrote: post #204
herbst wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Take also Switzerland nearly as much guns but barely gun deaths.

IIRC (1) Those guns are all bulky rifle-style things which are great when you're defending against an invading army but not so useful when you want to shoot some of your classmates, and (2) There are lots of guns around but access to ammunition is tightly controlled.

Even thought I live there I only have a limited understanding. But from what I can tell a) ammunition is sold over the counter to everyone with a license. b) you are talking about the military rifle. Which is by far not the only gun you can buy (again I don't know the exact limits, I assume automatic is somewhat banned)
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