Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show • Hacker News Board

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#61

Post by Crespyl » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:30 PM UTC

syshum wrote: post #23

RIMR wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Amazon removing the Chromecast from their store was, if anything, verification at the Fire TV was not a product that could succeed on its own. I love my Chromecast and I buy new models directly from Google, because no matter what Amazon says I know the difference between Google's product, and Amazon's copycat version of it.

If they would give me an actual controller for the chromecast I might consider it I have no desire to control my TV with my phone. I may look into Roku as an alternative to FireTV now though,

I'll third the praise for Roku.

The only annoyance is that they put ads on the homescreen, (but that can be blocked at the network level), and that different apps tend to have slightly different/inconsistent UXs, for example pressing "up" while watching Netflix will show you the timeline without pausing, but doing the same in HBO Now will take you back out to the show info page.

The dedicated remotes are nice, though sometimes oddly slow to "wake up". Some models even have headphone jacks on the remote, which can be really handy.

All the versions can be controlled through a really nice Android app, which lets you directly enter text rather than pecking around in a grid keyboard, and also lets you forward audio to your phone/headset instead of the speakers or remote.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#62

Post by hammock » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:36 PM UTC

RIMR wrote: post #9

bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

Amazon removing the Chromecast from their store was, if anything, verification at the Fire TV was not a product that could succeed on its own. I love my Chromecast and I buy new models directly from Google, because no matter what Amazon says I know the difference between Google's product, and Amazon's copycat version of it.

>Amazon removing the Chromecast from their store was, if anything, verification at the Fire TV was not a product that could succeed on its own.

Did anyone ever think otherwise? Content is king. Fire stick is just a raspberry pi with half-ass UI built in

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#63

Post by Splines » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:39 PM UTC

lixardz wrote: post #44

syshum wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>>seamlessness that chromecast how is it seamless, I want a independent device to watch videos on, not a device that have to connect with my phone, tablet or pc then "cast" video to it. I want a self contained video streaming device with its own physical remote, processor and OS that does not need anything else but a internet connection Roku and FireTV are different classes of Devices than a ChromeCast

you're in like .01% of the population that wants that. the menu's and remote with the roku are horrendous, everything about a roku is terrible. You have log into an account within the 'roku os'. you also have to have the remote on you. I almost always have my phone on me. I'm already signed into all the apps that i want, with a much easier to use keyboard for searching. i tap a button on my screen and it's playing on…

Chromecasts are a non-starter for families with children. How are they supposed to stream to the TV when they don't have a phone?

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#64

Post by ucaetano » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:39 PM UTC

otakucode wrote: post #51

Why is this Google's call to make? I thought YouTube was a web site/service and the web was open?

This is an App, not a website.

You're still free to browse YT on a Fire TV, but Amazon decided not to include a browser to prevent you from doing so.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#65

Post by Crespyl » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:40 PM UTC

stinky613 wrote: post #54

lixardz wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

you're in like .01% of the population that wants that. the menu's and remote with the roku are horrendous, everything about a roku is terrible. You have log into an account within the 'roku os'. you also have to have the remote on you. I almost always have my phone on me. I'm already signed into all the apps that i want, with a much easier to use keyboard for searching. i tap a button on my screen and it's playing on…

> you're in like .01% of the population that wants [a self contained video streaming device with its own physical remote, processor and OS that does not need anything else but a internet connection] Then why is Roku the most popular brand of streaming device?[1] > You have log into an account within the 'roku os' ...and with Chromecast you have to log into an account within the Google Home mobile app. In both cases y…

And even though it's not a focus, Roku still has a perfectly usable Miracast/WiFi Display implementation that works with any Miracast source. I've used it successfully from both my android phone and win10 laptop.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#66

Post by kuschku » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:45 PM UTC

nolok wrote: post #45

bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

They fired the second shot when they refused to make anything to stream from a kindle fire to a chromecast. That's literally a "amazon media playing thingy" and it can't stream to the market leader casting device. I love competition but this to me is a case of "ohh, screw that, just make whatever work with whatever"

> They fired the second shot when they refused to make anything to stream from a kindle fire to a chromecast. That's literally a "amazon media playing thingy" and it can't stream to the market leader casting device.

Actually, Amazon had apps that did this.

Google changed the Chromecast protocol, and demanded that app developers use their proprietary library.

I once had an app that was affected by this, too. The fault is entirely with Google.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#67

Post by Grazester » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:49 PM UTC

ams6110 wrote: post #46

mcintyre1994 wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My brother took his to uni and couldn't log into the Wifi - I assume he has to enter uni credentials for it and the Chromecast doesn't support that Wifi authentication model.

He probably needs to register the mac address with the university dhcp service so that it can get a routable IP address. University networks used to be pretty wide open but the days where you could just plug into any available Ethernet socket or hop on the wifi anonymously are gone.

We may have a winner here. Universities tend to use this network access control services that block random mac's from connecting.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#68

Post by bitmapbrother » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:50 PM UTC

quotha wrote: post #37

bitmapbrother wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's really an app on the device that uses the YouTube HTML5 API. If you violate their TOS they can prevent access to those API's anytime they want.

Okay, but how is Amazon violating TOS; they are using it the way it is meant to be used.

The first version was a tour de force in TOS violations. It was such an abuse that I'm surprised Amazon were brazen enough to release it considering Google would drop the hammer once they saw it. I guess they thought they could do whatever they wanted with other companies properties. I don't know if the revised version violates the TOS, but I'm guessing it's compliant. This seems to be all about reciprocity with Google which I'm all for. At the end of the day, it's their API and they can determine you can and cannot use it. If Amazon wants to play games by banning Google from their ubiquitous store then Google can do the same with their properties.

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#69

Post by jimnotgym » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:56 PM UTC

bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

A store can sell whatever it likes, surely?

If a store has become so dominant that it is impossible to compete if you can't get a listing, then shouldn't we be addressing that issue? If Amazon is in the dangerous position of manufacturer/retailer/marketplace owner (not to mention hosting provider) to the detriment of competition then Amazon needs breaking up.

If Google is a content provider/directory/manufacturer to the detriment of consumers then the same is true.

This tit for tat stuff over their sucky streaming sticks is not the issue

Re: Google Is Pulling YouTube Off the Fire TV and Echo Show

#70

Post by kuschku » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:56 PM UTC

bitsoda wrote: post #6

You know what, good for Google. I hate to sound like a child, but Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back. This move only seems fair.

> Amazon fired the first salvo by dropping the Chromecast a few years back

...after Google intentionally changed the Chromecast protocol almost weekly to force app developers to use their proprietary library, and to prevent third-party implementations of the library from working.

There’s dozens of open source implementations of the protocol from that era left on GitHub, all abandoned over the constant changes that were purely done to prevent anyone (Amazon or open source devs) from streaming to Chromecast, or receiving streams, without going through Google’s proprietary library.