The compelling case for working less • Hacker News Board

Re: The compelling case for working less

#101

Post by Joe-Z » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:27 AM UTC

mseebach wrote: post #90

Joe-Z wrote: post #45

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself' I find that this is something that sometimes sort of just happens to me, when I get aware of something I'm doing better now than, say, a year before. But, I never really consciously decide to do that, because then I find it just doesn't work. Like the cliché of standing in front of a mirror and saying to yourself "today is gonna be a good day" (Has that ever worked for a…

It works, but no, it won't turn night into day. It's about making sure you take a moment to appreciate the good things you experience. It's about making an effort to not assume malice when there's a plausible positive or neutral explanation for someones behaviour. It's about the fact that if you smile at people and say good morning, they'll return the favour more often than if you frown and don't. It's about making p…

Okay, I can see that. That's what I try to do too. Altough I see these thinking habits as more of a short-term happiness boost than a tool for feeling satisfied with my life (which I would categorize as a more longer-lasting feeling, independent of my normal up/down mood-cycles).

Re: The compelling case for working less

#102

Post by manmal » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:27 AM UTC

dmarlow wrote: post #69

manmal wrote: post #30

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t think that there are many people who can code in a concentrated manner for more than, say, 6 hours per day. There are days when I manage 8 hours of actual coding, but those are not my favorite ones - I only do those under immense deadline pressure, and with all the interruptions it means sitting at a screen for 10-12 hours. Such days leave me exhausted for 2-3 days after. Not sure why, but the brain is a musc…

The brain is an organ. If I could flex my brain, I would!

Of course it is. I think we all know how brains work physiologically (at least basically).

But use it, and it will tire. Forget to pause and it will tire faster. And neurotransmitters are not an endless resource.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#103

Post by mseebach » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:38 AM UTC

Joe-Z wrote: post #101

mseebach wrote: post #90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It works, but no, it won't turn night into day. It's about making sure you take a moment to appreciate the good things you experience. It's about making an effort to not assume malice when there's a plausible positive or neutral explanation for someones behaviour. It's about the fact that if you smile at people and say good morning, they'll return the favour more often than if you frown and don't. It's about making p…

Okay, I can see that. That's what I try to do too. Altough I see these thinking habits as more of a short-term happiness boost than a tool for feeling satisfied with my life (which I would categorize as a more longer-lasting feeling, independent of my normal up/down mood-cycles).

The value is that when you don't spend your life being angry at Mondays or the weather or the fortunes of your favourite sportsteam (never main all the things people are casually angry at their bosses for, but doesn't actually warrant anger), you have a lot more energy to identify and engage with the things that actually make a lasting difference in your life.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#104

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:41 AM UTC

pbhjpbhj wrote: post #100

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's because over here once you reach retirement age (which has gone up from 65 to 67 or 68), you get a free pension from the government which is enough to last you the rest of your life - nowadays 20-30 years if you're lucky. I mean think about it. If you're anything like me, you've spent the first 24 or so years of your life in school (paid for in a large part by the government), and the last 30 years in retireme…

Where's "here"? I'd guess USA? People often say the government pay for something without breaking that down and realising it's tax-payers/society who pay. That's always worth remembering IMO.

Netherlands, I'd guess from the context.

I agree it's worth remembering that "the government doesn't have its own money", but it's as much - if not more, these days - important to remember that paying taxes and every citizen having their tax money in their pocket are not equivalent scenarios. At the very least, governments use tax money to smooth things out on the wealth spectrum. Whether you're rich or poor, you get the same baseline of education, health, security and convenience.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#105

Post by [deleted] » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:41 AM UTC

Spearchucker wrote: post #94

kough wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

Age fixes that. Used to feel much the same. Now (approaching 50) I just couldn't give a shit anymore. A friend I've grown distant from over the last 4 years or so bought a 911 GT3 RS last year. And suddenly I hear from him. And I marvel at the waste. Purchases like that are meaningful on only two days - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it. I think a mid-20's me might've liked a car like that for the sex it co…

[deleted]

Re: The compelling case for working less

#106

Post by TeMPOraL » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:49 AM UTC

Ultimatt wrote: post #51

Chinjut wrote: post #50

There is a frequent pattern which concerns me of primarily justifying the desire for reduced work hours in terms of the alleged increase in productivity this will bring about (by allowing recharging, preventing burnout, etc.). I worry that this already concedes too much. This allows for just as much stressful dominance of work over the rest of life, and shame over any deviation from this script, as maximizes producti…

Work can still be for your self. I work harder, longer and more frequently working for mysel than an employer.

I think that's covered in GP's "I have my own priorities and trade-offs to worry about".

For me - a lot of the things I want to do for myself involves exactly the same kind of activities as my dayjob - but the end goal is mine, and I actually believe in it.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#107

Post by a_imho » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:58 AM UTC

b0rsuk wrote: post #24

You don't have to convince employees, who are eager to try it and unwind. How do you convince employers ? Surely not by pointing out THEY don't work as much as we do.

I don't think anyone can convince employers as most would prefer longer hours, misplaced or not. Nevertheless they understand financial incentives e.g. probably better off respecting labour laws.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#108

Post by ajdlinux » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:59 AM UTC

spyckie2 wrote: post #78

CM30 wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. With smaller societies, we know less and thus expect less from ourselves and our situations. But it becomes more difficult to remain this way as small societies get replaced with large social networks. This sort of logic is also part of why social media can be so damagin…

The glass half-full version of this is humans have an increased awareness and participation in pushing the limits of innovation, novelty and progress. But yes, the half-empty version is the depressing awareness that you're not really "good" at anything.

One aspect of the half-empty version is that if you don't feel you're good at something it can discourage you from even trying to push the limits.

I think I've noticed this a bit in myself - before I had broadband internet I was more willing to play around and tinker with things, now I struggle a bit harder to find motivation to try anything I'm not already good at.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#109

Post by 3131s » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:59 AM UTC

Banthum wrote: post #81

wsc981 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... You forget a big part I think: planning for your future. ... What I find remarkable is that in Thailand the people on the country-side generally seem to not think too much about the future. My Thai girlfriend sometimes tells me I should think less about the future, same like the Thai people do. She tells me sometimes I think too much about the future. The Thai people don't care too much about saving up for a pens…

There are lots of cultures (national and sub-national) where people don't think about the future. Migration flows are always away from those cultures, and towards cultures where people do think about the future. The thing is, everybody likes to dream about the care-free life, but nobody wants to experience the inevitable ultimate results of that: poverty, crime, underachievement (e.g. never accomplishing anything on…

> There are lots of cultures (national and sub-national) where people don't think about the future.

> Migration flows are always away from those cultures, and towards cultures where people do think about the future.

Source? How exactly is the amount of "thinking about the future" determined?

Re: The compelling case for working less

#110

Post by doikor » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 11:01 AM UTC

j7ake wrote: post #47

gerhardi wrote: post #43

When you’re actually good at something you do, dont give 100% in all the time. Get a feeling of what your clients/boss/etc. need to be happy and try to exceed it marginally. - Be capable of 100 in normal working hours - Be expected to deliver 70 - Deliver 80 This provides also a good buffer for errors and other unexpected stuff. And reduces stress.

Is this how any great scientist, athlete, artist produce their works ? I highly doubt they took your advice. If it's just about making money however, then sure that seems like a sound strategy.

> Is this how any great scientist, athlete, artist produce their works ?

I've never seen an athlete that goes 100% all the time your body just simply cannot take it. Hell someone who always trains at 95% multiple times a day is pretty sure to take some PEDs to help with the recovery.

I know a guy who does strongman competitions for a living. He never gives his 100% outside of competitions (3 to 5 times a year) The guy sleeps like 12 hours a day minimum (~8h at night and 3 or 4 naps), spends more time eating and then training and once he is nearing competition and going for that "peak" performance for a competition training after warmups might mean doing one single rep of deadlift as the whole days routine (probably takes a good 2 or 3 days to fully recover from that with his muscles). There are just some very real limits to the endurance of a human being. (the brain is also an organ just like muscles and has limits and needs rest etc.)