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The compelling case for working less

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Re: The compelling case for working less

#41
post #28
post #23

One of older articles linked from HN said the very name "stress" is wrong, because it conjures incorrect expectations. That you can forever endure a certain level of pressure, but will break after a certain point. The term "stress" comes from the world of physics. Instead, the article argued, stress resistance is like a muscle. To develop it, you need to exercise it a bit, then STOP. As someone who made working out h…

And yet professional athletes can train for several hours every day. Sometimes twice. Doing a couple pushups every day won’t kill ya. Being stressed every day however might.

Professional athletes sleep A LOT, way more than a normal person. The need for rest doesn't exclude them, not at all.

Another difference between professional athletes and normal people is the likelihood of being on drugs that improve performance.

You can do push ups every day, but it's useless.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#42
post #24

You don't have to convince employees, who are eager to try it and unwind. How do you convince employers ? Surely not by pointing out THEY don't work as much as we do.

My managers, and their managers, have worked longer hours than me at every job I've ever had, including retail jobs in high school, academia in grad school, and now software engineering.

Once you hit the C-Suite you don't even think about work-life balance, because your work is your entire life. I know people like that, who have enough money to retire in their 40s and live in luxury without ever working again, yet they don't want to stop working.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#43
When you’re actually good at something you do, dont give 100% in all the time. Get a feeling of what your clients/boss/etc. need to be happy and try to exceed it marginally.

- Be capable of 100 in normal working hours

- Be expected to deliver 70

- Deliver 80

This provides also a good buffer for errors and other unexpected stuff. And reduces stress.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#44
An interesting related thought I had recently was: why are we optimizing the technology we develop to help / increase the productivity of, those who work more/harder?

...and not the other way around? It seems like everywhere: even in software, languages and tools that increase the productivity of "lazier" people (aka more "contemplative" or "think a lot, do a little" type of people) are basically always abandoned by industry after the "transplantable" ideas are extracted out of them (Lisp-s, lots of other meta-programming tools like OMeta, lots of functional languages with advanced type systems, lots of ideas for smarter-IDEs, smarter-debuggers etc. - basically what we've chosen to use as professionals is like 20-years behind what "can be done"). And same is true for most consumer facing technologies - nooooobody wants to develop device or apps that minimize user engangement! When this is exactly what the "think a lot, do a little"-people would need to have their output increased without requiring them to work harder.

Also when it comes to online classes and all. There's very, very few content designed to "let it seep in while you have a beer on the beach"... very few "high density but low focus-requirements" educational content. So to make any meaningful progress at learning something, you have to actively make a schedule with hours-lengths chunked of focused time at regular intervals... aka "work hard"! But I know from personal experience that this is not the only way to learn stuff!!! Many of the things I know I've "soaked into my brain" in pretty low-engagement ways that may have taken years to learn what others can learn in weeks of concentrated effort, but... it's just a different feel to it. This kind of knowledge was acquired effortlessly and I can use it effortlessly - I just load up a problem into my mind, and my subconscious just presents me with the solution, no need to actively think about it! And this is just amazing, you get that "god / the-universe downloaded the solution into your brain" kind of high.

Also, at the other end of the spectrum, we don't seem to recognize that a large percent of the population has too low IQs to be able to do any meaningful work in the current world. And yet basically all mind-augmentation technologies are targeted at people that are already smart. Nobody's building a "Siri that could help mentally challenged people work as nuclear engineers", when that could very well work.

Shouldn't we maybe use technology to actively fight against Price's law instead?

Shouldn't we focus on developing technology for achieving more through doing LESS? "Give" less, but "get more in return?" What's even the point of striving for anything else?!

    

Re: The compelling case for working less

#45
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

The most effective way to be unhappy - comparing yourself to others. Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself', ie do better than you did before. I also like to remember that such comparisons are usually between your every day existance and their 'highlight reel'.

>Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself'

I find that this is something that sometimes sort of just happens to me, when I get aware of something I'm doing better now than, say, a year before.

But, I never really consciously decide to do that, because then I find it just doesn't work. Like the cliché of standing in front of a mirror and saying to yourself "today is gonna be a good day" (Has that ever worked for anybody? Where is this meme coming from?)

Re: The compelling case for working less

#46
post #12
post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

In addition to what others have already said, noticing this is a step in a good direction. Having a clear idea of just how strange and arbitrary our emotions can be is a great antidote.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#47

When you’re actually good at something you do, dont give 100% in all the time. Get a feeling of what your clients/boss/etc. need to be happy and try to exceed it marginally. - Be capable of 100 in normal working hours - Be expected to deliver 70 - Deliver 80 This provides also a good buffer for errors and other unexpected stuff. And reduces stress.

Is this how any great scientist, athlete, artist produce their works ? I highly doubt they took your advice.

If it's just about making money however, then sure that seems like a sound strategy.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#48
post #15
post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I agree with your premise. I know for a fact that I am better off than my parents, my parents were better off than their parents, and my grandparents were better off than their parents, and in general, this is true for families. Yet, IMO, we are less satisfied and it is because there is a real and growing chasm of people in different income groups in regards to quality o…

[deleted]

Re: The compelling case for working less

#49

When you’re actually good at something you do, dont give 100% in all the time. Get a feeling of what your clients/boss/etc. need to be happy and try to exceed it marginally. - Be capable of 100 in normal working hours - Be expected to deliver 70 - Deliver 80 This provides also a good buffer for errors and other unexpected stuff. And reduces stress.

To explain a bit further, I feel that this approach also makes you more ready for promotions and working with new people/industries/tech. To me it seems that people who worked their ass off and received a promotion “as a reward for their hard work” seem more prone to burnout later on with more responsibilities. We can be better than that - don’t get promoted for hard work, get promoted for SMART work!

Re: The compelling case for working less

#50
There is a frequent pattern which concerns me of primarily justifying the desire for reduced work hours in terms of the alleged increase in productivity this will bring about (by allowing recharging, preventing burnout, etc.).

I worry that this already concedes too much. This allows for just as much stressful dominance of work over the rest of life, and shame over any deviation from this script, as maximizes productivity.

Even if my shorter-work-hours productivity doesn't match my longer-work-hours productivity, I'd still prefer shorter-work-hours, with no guilt over having those preferences. My goal in life is not to optimize everything I do for maximum benefit of my employer; I have my own priorities and trade-offs to worry about.

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