The compelling case for working less • Hacker News Board

Re: The compelling case for working less

#91

Post by spyckie2 » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:03 AM UTC

amelius wrote: post #83

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. But what about the rise in real estate prices that happened just about when people were getting double income? Overwork may be market-driven more than we think.

I actually really like this point. Market forces make it difficult to sustain long periods of vastly above average standards of living.

If a place has high standard of living, competition to live there will make people willing to pay more to live there until standard of living is back to the mean.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#92

Post by Retric » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:05 AM UTC

vincnetas wrote: post #79

spicymaki wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Correction: Browsing Facebook and Instagram are basically the worst things you can do.

If you are trying to be precise, no, there are worse things. Poke out your own eye with a finger, for example.

I don't think most people can actually do that. In theory people can do all kinds of things, but each person in this universe is constrained by all kinds of things like instinct, resources, and what they actually experience etc.

So, among the things 75% of the people alive today might actually do, browsing Facebook might actually be the worst. Depending on your value system.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#93

Post by tmnvix » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:07 AM UTC

kough wrote: post #12

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

"Every time my friends succeed, I die a little."

- Gore Vidal

Re: The compelling case for working less

#94

Post by Spearchucker » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:12 AM UTC

kough wrote: post #12

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

Age fixes that. Used to feel much the same. Now (approaching 50) I just couldn't give a shit anymore. A friend I've grown distant from over the last 4 years or so bought a 911 GT3 RS last year. And suddenly I hear from him. And I marvel at the waste. Purchases like that are meaningful on only two days - the day you buy it, and the day you sell it. I think a mid-20's me might've liked a car like that for the sex it could get me.

Making more money than me is great. Really. If making more money than me is important to you I KNOW I'm having more fun than you are. Somehow, somewhere in the last 5 years or so I've become content. I scratch-build model cars now in my spare time, and that's where I compete - with myself. Crazy fulfilling.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#95

Post by dspillett » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:15 AM UTC

donpdonp wrote: post #37

kough wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

The most effective way to be unhappy - comparing yourself to others. Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself', ie do better than you did before. I also like to remember that such comparisons are usually between your every day existance and their 'highlight reel'.

> Its far more satisfying to 'impress yourself', ie do better than you did before.

The converse of this is why stagnation feels bad long term (you don't tend to notice short term, that is just a break taking things easy for a while). Knowing you have not learned/done anything new in a long time can be depressing, and fuels many a mid-life crisis.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#96

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:17 AM UTC

dlp211 wrote: post #15

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

I've been thinking about this a lot lately and I agree with your premise. I know for a fact that I am better off than my parents, my parents were better off than their parents, and my grandparents were better off than their parents, and in general, this is true for families. Yet, IMO, we are less satisfied and it is because there is a real and growing chasm of people in different income groups in regards to quality o…

I presume you mean "financially"? It could be you mean it in much broader terms?

Re: The compelling case for working less

#97

Post by k__ » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:18 AM UTC

kough wrote: post #12

spyckie2 wrote: post #7

I'm convinced that our decision for how much effort to exert on work is not governed by the rational part of our brain. It's part primal - fear of insecurity and belonging to a social structure - part ego - accomplishment as confirmation of existence and your salary as a concrete number to compare favorably to others - and part culture and habit. I also think overwork is a byproduct of a globally connected society. H…

> Humans are happy if they are relatively well off compared to what they know. This is super true. I've been congratulating myself all month on my new job, paying me BIG BUCKS, compared to my friends. Well, just found out an old friend of mine also found a new job, getting payed literally twice as much as me. Now I'm in a funk and it's irrational and stupid but I can't help but look at the same number in a totally di…

I often have it the other way around with a friend.

Somehow only in the things he cares about. He has a car and a much better PC, still he envies my money.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#98

Post by quickthrower2 » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:21 AM UTC

brian-armstrong wrote: post #66

creep wrote: post #2

Doing nothing does not literally mean to do nothing. Strolling through the streets is meditative. Apart from mental rest, staring out the window gives processing time for the subconscious. I'm a student, and I feel uncomfortable with the expectation I am under to perform constantly, to "use my potential" "constructively". And often I have this expectation of myself. But I get my best ideas from just lying awake in be…

You should try doing work before you write it off entirely. The world scarcely needs anothered sheltered permanent academian anyway :)

I'd say don't. Easy to get used to the lifestyle and money and never get back into academia. Then find working for companies soul crushing.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#99

Post by jesperlang » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:23 AM UTC

Being self employed working from home (coding), I recently started to do some timetracking to see how I spend my work. I used pomodoro technique with 25 minute slots and 5 min breaks in between. I set up an initial goal of doind 10 per day or about 5 hours, sounds very modest to me! Also, I set a rule that I have to stop working when I felt mentally drained, you know when you just feel sluggish at the end of a normal working day.

The thing was I struggled very hard to reach 10 and found a nice balance at around 8 slots of focused work per day (4 hours, ncluding coding and administrative tasks). So a 25 hour work week suggested in the article sounds reasonable to me.

Re: The compelling case for working less

#100

Post by pbhjpbhj » Tue, Dec 05, 2017, 10:24 AM UTC

Cthulhu_ wrote: post #64

wsc981 wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

... I know for a fact that I am better off than my parents ... I believe for me this is only true because of my job. Because I am a freelance software developer. If I'd have the same occupation as my father or mother, I am sure I would be much worse of today than they were. In The Netherlands taxation has definitely increased over the last decennia and wages haven't kept up with taxation and inflation for most jobs.

That's because over here once you reach retirement age (which has gone up from 65 to 67 or 68), you get a free pension from the government which is enough to last you the rest of your life - nowadays 20-30 years if you're lucky. I mean think about it. If you're anything like me, you've spent the first 24 or so years of your life in school (paid for in a large part by the government), and the last 30 years in retireme…

Where's "here"? I'd guess USA?

People often say the government pay for something without breaking that down and realising it's tax-payers/society who pay. That's always worth remembering IMO.