51–60 of 205 posts
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The problem is the EU, not Ireland. France should be able to tax apple on its own.
France does tax Apple on its own. They still pay VAT of course as well as on any profits classified as French (e.g. retail). The question is then everything else whose origin isn’t obvious.
These people are protesting against the wrong entity. Apple followed the tax laws at the time, so they should protest against their government for creating loopholes that can and always will be exploited by those with the resources to do so. Public companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits, which includes taking advantage of any and all available strategies to reduce their ta…
Just because you can doesn't mean you should. Taking advantage of others (such as lobbying for loopholes) falls under the umbrella. Just because you can dump industrial waste into a river doesn't mean you should. Just because you can steal doesn't mean you should. Just because you can shortchange citizens doesn't mean you should. Yes laws should be passed, I agree, but that doesn't mean we can't also multilaterally a…
To those saying that Apple has a fiduciary obligation to maximize profits, shouldn't by that logic Apple respect the environment at the minimum required level by law? But on the contrary, Apple highlights in a lot of their presentation how green and environmentally conscious they are, going above and beyond what the laws require: https://www.apple.com/environment/ Maybe because today being seen environmentally consci…
No, because they believe that showing that they care about the environment more than the laws require will result in increased profits, otherwise they wouldn't do it.
To those saying that Apple has a fiduciary obligation to maximize profits, shouldn't by that logic Apple respect the environment at the minimum required level by law? But on the contrary, Apple highlights in a lot of their presentation how green and environmentally conscious they are, going above and beyond what the laws require: https://www.apple.com/environment/ Maybe because today being seen environmentally consci…
There is a generational issue as well. Cook (and before him Jobs) grew up in the '70s, when the political upheavals of the '60s had started to rot. The main ideals that survived that age were environmentalism and racial/sexual equality - likely because they could be coupled with aggressive capitalism relatively painlessly. What "big values" do companies like Apple push, today? Environmentalism and racial/sexual equality.
Fair taxation is an issue that started to be considered only since the late '90s, and really went mainstream only with Occupy. In the '60s and '70s high taxes were normal (the legacy of New Deal and war effort in US, and socialist movements in Europe); in the '80s and '90s cutting taxes became a mantra, a shortcut to political victory. By the early 2000s the cracks started to show. As the generations that grew up with Occupy start to get in positions of command, hopefully they will try to find ways to conciliate the search for private profit with the fairness of higher taxation.
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> “Apple must stop denying the tax practices highlighted by the European Commission’s investigation, withdraw its appeal to the European Court of Justice and pay its fine of 13 billion euros as quickly as possible,” said Aurélie Trouvé, spokesman for Attac, according to the release. A blurb from article. It looks like the government already went after Apple.
They sound misinformed. The 13 billion euros is not a fine, it's back taxes that the EU says Apple should have paid to Ireland. Yes, this is relevant; Apple is not being punished¹, they're just being told to fulfill their obligations. ¹I'm not saying they should or shouldn't be.
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France does tax Apple on its own. They still pay VAT of course as well as on any profits classified as French (e.g. retail). The question is then everything else whose origin isn’t obvious.
The issue is using various IP transfer schemes to make it look like their French division has no profits while the Isle of Man division is earning billions.
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The issue is using various IP transfer schemes to make it look like their French division has no profits while the Isle of Man division is earning billions.
Technically speaking, almost all of the value is created in the USA via R&D. I don’t think Apple has any significant amount of R&D creation in France (hopefully a lab or two). Then there is some by order manufacturing in China, along with component acquisition, leaving just retail and distribution for local markets. Now, Apple can and has done some dodgy IP transfers to tax havens, but France wouldn’t have been the w…
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Technically speaking, almost all of the value is created in the USA via R&D. I don’t think Apple has any significant amount of R&D creation in France (hopefully a lab or two). Then there is some by order manufacturing in China, along with component acquisition, leaving just retail and distribution for local markets. Now, Apple can and has done some dodgy IP transfers to tax havens, but France wouldn’t have been the w…
Value is only created when you sell products, not when you create them (and especially not in R&D which is gamble cost for most companies), otherwise all the startups would be rich. If there would be no value creation in France, Apple would not have any business there.
That’s why Apple USA sells iPhones to Apple France at some price above hardware production costs. It doesn’t make sense any other way. Value isn’t created on sale, it is only realized as money at that point.
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Value is only created when you sell products, not when you create them (and especially not in R&D which is gamble cost for most companies), otherwise all the startups would be rich. If there would be no value creation in France, Apple would not have any business there.
Ridiculous, how would that even work? Profit is “sales - expenses.” So how would Apple account for the R&D in the states, or does Apple France just want to tax them assuming all the inputs don’t exist? That’s why Apple USA sells iPhones to Apple France at some price above hardware production costs. It doesn’t make sense any other way. Value isn’t created on sale, it is only realized as money at that point.
I really respect this kind of activism. Fair taxation certainly isn't the sexiest topic to hold a protest about, but it is actually a huge fundamental issue for us today. Individuals, and Corporations we treat as legal individuals, produce value for our society in several ways, and paying taxes is one of them. When wealthy individuals or large corporations dodge taxes via off-shore firms, etc. they erode the basis of…
True but as some one I know said about the 35 hour working "funny how its always the non French companies that got raided"
Seems perfectly understandable to me why foreign firms behaving like Apple would be the target.