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Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

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Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#11

Post by bauerd »

bdibs wrote: post #10
bauerd wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Maybe people are mad at their government but more mad at Apple?

More would be accomplished by protesting the government that allows certain loopholes. Apple is a public company with an obligation to its shareholders to make money, not pay erroneous taxes.

>More would be accomplished by protesting the government that allows certain loopholes.

I'm not so sure about this as I'd question that it's possible for a single government to close loopholes on its own. Arguably yes, governments should be pressured into closing "certain loopholes", but not because this necessarily leads to a better outcome.

>Apple is a public company with an obligation to its shareholders to make money

Not everyone agrees that companies ought to maximise only shareholder value.

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#12

Post by cdancette »

While the root of the problem is not the companies' action (they do what is logical for their own benefits), this is very good to raise public awareness.

This could be seen as a negative externality, because it has a very negative impact on the economy of the countries they're operating in. They're basically sucking money out of the country without contributing back what they should

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#13

Post by sailingparrot »

pcurve wrote: post #4

What's stopping EU from getting their acts together and impose corporate equivalent of Alternative Minimum Tax for companies doing business there?

Because to do that all the EU contries would need to agree. How do you go about convincing Ireland to vote for something like that?

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#14

Post by downandout »

These people are protesting against the wrong entity. Apple followed the tax laws at the time, so they should protest against their government for creating loopholes that can and always will be exploited by those with the resources to do so. Public companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits, which includes taking advantage of any and all available strategies to reduce their tax burden.

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#16

Post by 21 »

pcurve wrote: post #8
sailingparrot wrote: post #3

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Why does no one get mad at the governments who have the large tax loop holes? Why do you assume no one is? This has been discussed at length during the last French presidential election for example. See also: https://www.bloomberg.com/news/articles/2017-10-24/macron-ha... .

Found another article. https://www.rte.ie/news/2017/0916/905202-donohoe-eu-tax-plan... "According to one diplomat, the strongest level of opposition came from Ireland, Malta and Cyprus. Luxembourg was said to have raised a series of practical problems about the proposal, arguing it would introduce a lot of complexity into the tax system." Go figure. Noncompetitive EU countries complaining the loudest.

Can't help notice that three of the four are tiny countries. And the fourth, Ireland, is not that big either.

I'm starting to thing that there might also be a geopolitic reason to become a tax heaven, not just an economic one, something along the line "Let's convince Amazon to book profits here, and there let's see who will dare mess with us, given that Amazon will be protected by USA"

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#17

Post by cdancette »

downandout wrote: post #14

These people are protesting against the wrong entity. Apple followed the tax laws at the time, so they should protest against their government for creating loopholes that can and always will be exploited by those with the resources to do so. Public companies have a fiduciary responsibility to their shareholders to maximize profits, which includes taking advantage of any and all available strategies to reduce their ta…

While you're right, I think it's still a good thing, as apple is obviously on the border of legality (in fact, most of those tax evasion schemes are not proven legal). I read that they estimated that each technique they used had a 1/4 chance of being judged illegal in court.

Moreover, it raises awareness, and it is a good thing to blame publicly those society to help governments change the rules. If no one complains, why do anything?

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#19

Post by walshemj »

beloch wrote: post #9

I really respect this kind of activism. Fair taxation certainly isn't the sexiest topic to hold a protest about, but it is actually a huge fundamental issue for us today. Individuals, and Corporations we treat as legal individuals, produce value for our society in several ways, and paying taxes is one of them. When wealthy individuals or large corporations dodge taxes via off-shore firms, etc. they erode the basis of…

True but as some one I know said about the 35 hour working "funny how its always the non French companies that got raided"

Re: Shouting ‘pay your taxes,’ activists occupy Apple retail stores across France

#20

Post by barrkel »

cmansley wrote: post #2

Why does no one get mad at the governments who have the large tax loop holes? Shouldn't it be "Ireland close your loopholes!"

Ireland is closing its loopholes. Specifically, if a company is managed outside the country but registered in the country, it was considered non-resident for tax purposes. That changed in 2014, with a grandfathered provision that expires in 2020.

http://www.internationaltaxreview.com/Article/3410898/Irelan...

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