US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill • Hacker News Board

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#91

Post by mbaha » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 11:12 AM UTC

Alacart wrote: post #46

mbaha wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Following your logic, China is better off because instead of having one party protesting but failing to reject a law promoted by the elections-winning other party, it's just better to have one single party control everything. Sorry but I find this just mindblowing.

The parent comment is saying that the economic success of China should be encouraging America to step it's game up, not that it should become a single party system.

I'd argue that berating economic success as the main metric for measuring a country's success is precisely what is slowly but surely eroding the West's precious institutions.

Since when people just want to live comfortable lives and leave their collective fate to be decided by a minority whose interests do not necessarily align with the people's interests (otherwise, they would just allow fair elections).

Small example: of course, country-wide surveillance à la China would lead to "economic success", do you think it's criticized because it would lead to mass poverty ?

It would lead to a perfectly stable future for the population, with ever improving quality of life and security. The problem, as you may guess, lies elsewhere.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#92

Post by [deleted] » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 11:32 AM UTC

[deleted]

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#93

Post by ktt8943 » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 11:34 AM UTC

This bill is rural state senators and large corporations robbing middle class in industrialized areas.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#94

Post by dingaling » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 11:34 AM UTC

WillPostForFood wrote: post #39

domoritz wrote: post #4

It's sickening how large corporations make more and more money but pay almost no taxes because (through the money) they have so much influence on politics.

One of the main reasons large corporations pay no tax is that they hide the money in other countries with lower corporate tax rates. You can argue that it is a race to the bottom, or ineffective for other reasons, but the lower corporate tax rate is an attempt to deal with the issue, and get a cut of that money, albeit at a lower rate.

But if private citizens were able to park their income offshore I am fairly sure the response wouldn't be to lower income taxes.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#95

Post by AckSyn » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 11:49 AM UTC

AnkhMorporkian wrote: post #38

adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

> Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Sure, if you're trying to effect change on a federal level. Do you think that marching in a small town in France or Egypt would have a different effect? Marching in your town is worth it for changing laws in your town, or possibly your county. Protesting at the state capital would be effective for changing laws in your state. Protesting in DC would be…

It is very much surprising considering it never worked for either Korea or Vietnam wars.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#96

Post by chrisbennet » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:00 PM UTC

delta-v wrote: post #89

leifaffles wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

US politics was intentionally designed such that the majority doesn't get its way. It's the single major innovation in liberal political philosophy in the past 500 years. Saying "it's not democratic!" isn't a useful comment. We know.

How about saying replacing the current system with proportional representation? Is that a useful comment?

There are good reasons not to have proportional representation, at least not purely proportional.

One downside to strictly proportional representation is that a concentrated majority can make decisions without collaborating/cooperating with the minority.

Example: Coastal states with large populations could just ignore the other states with small populations.

The US bicameral congress balances the proportional House against the non-proportional Senate.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#97

Post by mino » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:45 PM UTC

TAForObvReasons wrote: post #6

For those who didn't watch the proceedings, https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DQAYbwpU8AELZa0.jpg was one of the actual pages of the bill, quite literally handwritten scribbled margin notes.

I saw that image popping up in my twitter feed, but I just assumed it was a parody :|

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#98

Post by polotics » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 1:40 PM UTC

leifaffles wrote: post #88

InclinedPlane wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You. Just. Questioned it. That's what you posted. Telling people not to criticize and somehow just wait around stewing in silence until election day is idiotic. To boot, the remainder of your critique is also off base. The electoral college is broken. And redistricting, gerrymandering, and voter suppression are incredibly "unfair". These aren't petty quibbles, these are truths. Federal courts have established that vo…

I don't think you're calm enough to have a rational discussion about all the untruths you just stated.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#99

Post by jrs235 » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 1:58 PM UTC

tymmc wrote: post #16

I think Mitch McConnell will go down as a historically terrible senator. He has an absolutely single-minded focus on winning legislative "victories" without any consideration of the actual merits of what he's corralling votes for or agaisnt.

Sounds like a prosecutor that focuses on convictions and personal record and not on truth and justice. This, the lack of pursuing truth and justice, is what is eroding our society.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#100

Post by JumpCrisscross » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 2:43 PM UTC

anigbrowl wrote: post #72

JumpCrisscross wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> protesting is virtually impossible I call my state and federal representatives and have built rapport with their SLAs. I find my input valued and well considered. My district is a densely-populated one in Manhattan. Work brings me to the Bay Area, where I also conference with representatives. I am usually the only person calling or caring about most technical issues. The problem isn't imagined bans on peaceful prot…

As an activist (both on the street and in legislative fora) that's garbage. People absolutely work on all phases of the democratic process here.

> As an activist that's garbage

What’s garbage?

> People absolutely work on all phases of the democratic process here

One, which here? Two, I think we are saying the same thing. (OP said “protesting is virtually impossible.” I said that impossibility is a myth.)