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US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

bbc.com

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Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#41

Post by danieltillett »

ZeroGravitas wrote: post #27
danieltillett wrote: post #21

I don’t know why anyone is worried about this - the worse the corruption and give away to the 0.01% the bigger the blowback. The end result is the 0.01% are going to pay far more than if they had been reasonable.

The standard operating procedure when American oligarchs feel threatened is war and racial/ethnic/religious division to distract the rubes. So probably quite a few people should be worried. I like your optimism though.

This sort of thing has been used for the last 40 years and its effectiveness is drawing to an end. Nobody believes anything the oligarchs say anymore.

You can only pull on a rubber band for so long before it eventually breaks and smacks you in the face. The band is now very, very tight. The next economic downturn risks unleashing something that no amount of money can control.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#42

Post by TAForObvReasons »

WillPostForFood wrote: post #33
adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

This bill doesn't fundamentally change very much besides the corporate tax rate, so the explosive reaction seems unnecessary. You aren't going to get a million people in the street because their tax bill went up, or down, several hundred dollars, which is what this amounts to for most people.

The elimination of the State and Local Tax deductions will be huge for California and New York.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#43

Post by jessaustin »

sytelus wrote: post #32
marcell wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Those numbers you posted are probably inaccurate. The true numbers really depend on whether you itemize your deductions, and how much. This particular tax bill substantially raises taxes for people who itemize, in particular states with high local taxes like California. I don’t know about Fox News but The NY Times had a good analysis of this: https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2017/11/28/upshot/what-t... Obviously m…

I assumed standard family (married filed jointly, 2 kids, standard deduction).

Yeah somehow I don't see itemized deductions as a "middle class" thing. Even less so with the standard deduction increase.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#44

Post by briandear »

shams93 wrote: post #30
adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

The thing is protest has been criminalized. The people who protested Trump's inauguration are facing what amounts to life in federal prison. Yes there was one car damaged but the Nazis who's protest lead to the death of that young woman face no charges.

And the Baltimore rioters? Police actually let them destroy property. And who is facing life in prison protesting the Trump inauguration?

And what was the purpose of protesting the inauguration? I get it you are MAD and you want to break things.

But did you vote? How many of those protesters did? Statistically, very few.

You get the government you deserve.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#45

Post by djur »

tymmc wrote: post #12

What a horrible process. You don't get good legislation written by ramming it through without time to evaluate the consequences of the law.

Tonight I'm thinking about the Affordable Care Act, which McCain piously invoked as an example of the kind of unseemly rushing and ramming through that he disapproved of when he voted down the recent health care bill. The ACA took about a year to pass, spent an extensive amount of time in committee, incorporated hundreds of amendments, and had fundamentally the same structure from the beginning of the process to the end. This bill was cobbled together in a matter of weeks and was substantially altered while the Senate was in session preparing to vote on it. The hypocrisy is mind-boggling.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#46

Post by Alacart »

mbaha wrote: post #18
lancewiggs wrote: post #7

The law making process is so clearly broken. I see this as a contributing factor to the long gradual decline of the role of the USA in the world. The reemergence of China should be engendering a positive spirit of lifting the game, not a money grabbing exercise. If you can’t make evidence based laws for the people then society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game.

Following your logic, China is better off because instead of having one party protesting but failing to reject a law promoted by the elections-winning other party, it's just better to have one single party control everything. Sorry but I find this just mindblowing.

The parent comment is saying that the economic success of China should be encouraging America to step it's game up, not that it should become a single party system.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#47

Post by JumpCrisscross »

adamnemecek wrote: post #9

One of the problems of US is the fact that protesting is virtually impossible. Unless there are 1,000,000 people in the streets of DC for two weeks, no one will care. Protesting in your city has little impact on the federal level. Also The general lack of public spaces makes it hard. And the fact that the police cracks down pretty hard on things after the first display of some sort of "disobedience". Look at the phot…

> protesting is virtually impossible

I call my state and federal representatives and have built rapport with their SLAs. I find my input valued and well considered.

My district is a densely-populated one in Manhattan. Work brings me to the Bay Area, where I also conference with representatives. I am usually the only person calling or caring about most technical issues.

The problem isn't imagined bans on peaceful protest. It is apathy, laziness and an unwillingness to independently engage.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#48

Post by leifaffles »

shams93 wrote: post #40

The Republicans have been so skilled at digital jerrymandering that we have digital technology delivering us a single party state. Only mass voter outrage will be enough to overcome a decade of very effective data driven jerrymandering.

It's actually spelled "gerrymandering".

You might have learned that by now if you weren't so busy spreading dumb conspiracy theories on the internet.

Re: US Senate passes sweeping tax overhaul bill

#50

Post by beisner »

mbaha wrote: post #18
lancewiggs wrote: post #7

The law making process is so clearly broken. I see this as a contributing factor to the long gradual decline of the role of the USA in the world. The reemergence of China should be engendering a positive spirit of lifting the game, not a money grabbing exercise. If you can’t make evidence based laws for the people then society will be warped into some dysfunctional dystopian end game.

Following your logic, China is better off because instead of having one party protesting but failing to reject a law promoted by the elections-winning other party, it's just better to have one single party control everything. Sorry but I find this just mindblowing.

I’d be the first to say there are a bunch of serious problems posed by the one-party system in China, but getting important projects done quickly is not one of them.
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