Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say • Hacker News Board

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#71

Post by ztratar » Fri, Dec 01, 2017, 7:49 PM UTC

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #63

GCU-Empiricist wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Considering that China has the great firewall due to it's government censorship I'm a bit shocked to see this as the top comment. The United States has distasteful problems with ubiquitous monitoring, but implying it is equivalent to China seems like failing to consider that there are qualitatively different levels of totalitarianism.

I don’t fully understand your argument. Because China has the great firewall they’re worse? I don’t really see how the firewall relates to surveillance in this way. I agree the firewall is a human rights issue in the way that US prisons are a human rights issue, but I’d be hesitant to say that because China is bad in this one way, the fact that they perform surveillance is made worse. The US is the global leader in s…

> "I don’t really see how the firewall relates to surveillance in this way."

Really? One of the Great Firewall's primary use cases is to prevent data that could be used for surveillance to leave the nation.

China prohibits all sorts of data from leaving through the Great Firewall, such as telemetry.

> "The US is the global leader in surveillance as far as I’m aware."

We are definitely the leader when it comes to foreign surveillance. When it comes to domestic, however, China is easily winning. They don't even hide it -- they require practically all interesting data to be available for their use by law.

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#72

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Dec 01, 2017, 9:39 PM UTC

abakker wrote: post #3

irunbackwards wrote: post #2

I thought this was like a for sure thing already.

Yeah, the army already issued a memo saying that they were not using DJI until this was resolved. That was back in August.

[deleted]

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#73

Post by trhway » Fri, Dec 01, 2017, 9:45 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #69

trhway wrote: post #67

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That agreement is to not to spy on each other against each other's will. That is completely different from spying on each other's domestic targets at each other's request/will to workaround domestic no spying and privacy protections laws.

Explain how anyone would think that works. You can't get around the 4th amendment by directing someone else to violate it.

UK spying on US citizens doesn't violate US Constitution and the 4th in particular which naturally applies only to US government and the people on US soil. And thus they do it that way. UK obviously has all the rights to listen, record, etc on telecommunications of all of the foreigners, including US people on US soil as long as the traffic leaves the US (and even if not - i don't think they bother to pay attention to such a small detail as long as they are doing it from comfortable office in London :).

>Explain how anyone would think that works.

US government lawyers explained how torture is legal. Compare to that, the circumventing of the 4th by means of allies doing the actual spying ... i'd be surprised if they even bothered to explain it away.

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#74

Post by willstrafach » Fri, Dec 01, 2017, 11:50 PM UTC

wbl wrote: post #68

kuschku wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The snowden leaks, 4 years ago, offer proof that this happened, and you still deny it? Officials of the BND admitted it in a parliamentary hearing, too.

What proof did Snowden show of this?

None. People refuse to let this myth die, yet cannot provide any evidence. It is very strange.

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#75

Post by kuschku » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 12:55 AM UTC

wbl wrote: post #68

kuschku wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The snowden leaks, 4 years ago, offer proof that this happened, and you still deny it? Officials of the BND admitted it in a parliamentary hearing, too.

What proof did Snowden show of this?

I don’t have his documents on hand, but I’d instead recommend you read the transscripts of the NSA-Untersuchungsausschuss of the German Bundestag, which investigated the NSA and BND affairs. They’re official government documents, and are transscripts of people testifying under oath.

The head of the BND stated that the BND did not record any information about Germans, and the NSA did not record any information about Americans, but that the BND shared whatever it collected about Americans with the NSA, and in reverse.

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#76

Post by vinchuco » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 2:24 AM UTC

wbl wrote: post #68

kuschku wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The snowden leaks, 4 years ago, offer proof that this happened, and you still deny it? Officials of the BND admitted it in a parliamentary hearing, too.

What proof did Snowden show of this?

Would you have thought of all Snowden revealed by yourself if he hadn't?

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#77

Post by slackingoff2017 » Sat, Dec 02, 2017, 2:25 AM UTC

crappybird wrote: post #10

All android phone are definitely sending data to United States. Why is sending data to one country better than sending data to another? For US citizens, this might be irrelevant (not so much if we go by the leaks). But for everyone living anywhere else on the globe, owning a smartphone means usually owning an endpoint for one of the giant corporate data sinks which its government can easily access. I understand that…

Android phones are not widely used for surveying critical infastructure unlike these drones. The fact that a Chinese product sends data to China is hardly surprising, but US intel is warning that such a thing is dangerous considering what these drones are frequently used for.

And those Android phones are made by companies around the world. Samsung phones send data to South Korea, Hauwei to China, etc... Some Android phones are sold without Google's apps and send nothing to their servers, so you're not really correct on that.

Re: Drone Maker D.J.I. May Be Sending Data to China, U.S. Officials Say

#78

Post by TaylorAlexander » Sun, Dec 03, 2017, 1:29 AM UTC

ztratar wrote: post #71

TaylorAlexander wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don’t fully understand your argument. Because China has the great firewall they’re worse? I don’t really see how the firewall relates to surveillance in this way. I agree the firewall is a human rights issue in the way that US prisons are a human rights issue, but I’d be hesitant to say that because China is bad in this one way, the fact that they perform surveillance is made worse. The US is the global leader in s…

> "I don’t really see how the firewall relates to surveillance in this way." Really? One of the Great Firewall's primary use cases is to prevent data that could be used for surveillance to leave the nation. China prohibits all sorts of data from leaving through the Great Firewall, such as telemetry. > "The US is the global leader in surveillance as far as I’m aware." We are definitely the leader when it comes to fore…

Doesn’t the US literally require huge amounts of data to be kept by corporations while also ensuring that through National Security Letters they can get what they need any time? Hillary Clinton actually campaigned on expanding “public private partnerships” for “data security”. She wanted to make it easier for corporations to share bulk data with the government without reprocussions.