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Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

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Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#71
post #52
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Same risk with a $10k diamond ring, right? Yet people buy those from Tiffany's.

Doesn't a diamond ring lose value once it is sold, though, in terms of re-sell value? A ring worth one bitcoin is not going to lose value once it is sold (aside from market volatility).

Yeah, but it's business as usual for petty thieves to cause 10x (or 100x, or 1000x) damage for a 1x payoff.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#72
post #14
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

Love the idea...;-)

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#73
post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why does one painting sell for $10 and another for $100 million? People can put value in whatever they want. I don't think there's a real objective way to say "oh yeah, it's mathematically proven that a diamond ring should cost $10,000...or a $1,000,000 if it's say Marilyn Monroe's ring, and that a single Bitcoin should have a value of no more than $10."

True, but I think we all can say with some certainty that "a token intended to be used as currency should not regularly increase or decrease in value by 20% or more in a matter of days or weeks". Who on earth would actually spend any Bitcoins right now? If you'd bought a Pizza with BTC back in 2010, you could have bought a car (or house?) instead only several years later. This type of volatility makes it totally unsu…

"Who on earth would actually sell any Bitcoins right now" (spend and sell have the same effect)... yet in the market, there's a seller in front of every buyer.

Regarding stuff being priced in BTC, prices are falling when BTC is rising. Who doesn't like lower and lower prices?

That pizza used to cost 50,000 BTC, it's only 0.0003 BTC today!

Bitcoin is a deflationary currency.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#74
post #14
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

Just watched a movie on Netflix yesterday called Bitcoin Heist.

A B-grade fictional movie focused around "Ghost" who has the QR code to his wallet on his ring. Worth a watch if you're sick in bed.

Fun anecdote: the movie is depicted when $BTC is $250 and they're chasing after 30k and 40k bitcoin.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#75
post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's interesting to see many of Filecoins promises realized already in alternatives like Sia or Storj, but Filecoin still takes the hype, despite not having anything released, let alone anything superior... I guess because it's by the IPFS developers and had a big flashy ICO?

The Sia team has really impressed me with their approach. They're the type of devs that keep quiet and just get the work done. No hype, no grandiose promises, just hard work and solving hard problems. I think that in the end they'll be the ones that come out ahead when it comes to decentralized storage.

You're making me want to actually try Sia for real stuff.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#76
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

filecoin is not BTC. BTC does have an inherent value, but only within the system. You're analogies to diamonds make no sense because diamonds are easy to produce and their cost does not reflect either the demand or the production of them. BTC, however, is required to actually run the system, are hard to produce and their value is set on their limited production plus demand. It is true that BTC currently has little value outside of the system, but that is not the same as saying it has no inherent value.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#77
post #21

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Author here: we did not invest; nor are we invested in any of the competitor projects mentioned in the article.

other author here, no ICO investments. We're actually working for many years on a similar system, non-profit non-ICO based. We know this scientific area a bit (see my other comment).

Thanks for your clarifications. That was my guess too, I just wanted to confirm it.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#78
All XXXcoin currencies are Ponzi schemes, in effect. Their "growth" is fueled almost entirely by new investors dumping cash into the system from which no one takes (can take[1]) anything out.

That's a pyramid. Eventually when the investment money runs out[2], the support will fall over. The only distinction between this and a Ponzi scheme is that there are (probably) no single fraudsters at the top ready to run off with the money. It's an unintentional Ponzi scheme.

Coin boosters simply don't get this: there's not enough money in the world to keep bitcoin (and all the copycat coins) growing forever. What is your plan for when the investment money runs out?. There is no plan, because you can't get your money out.

[1] You simply can't dump a large bitcoin holding. There's not nearly enough liquidity to do that in reasonable time.

[2] And it will.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#79
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

1) those mainframes got people to the moon 2) nothing in bitcoin protocol precludes it from adopting more efficient solutions when such appear, what people seem to miss is that proof of work itself and energy spent securing the ledger will always correlate with value stored

1) So, a worldwide payment solution requires a spaceship, but we have first generation mainframes currently. Bitcoin is the biggest of those mainframes, uses the most energy, etc. 2) You touched upon two independent considerations. Yes, bitcoin can evolve technologically, but it’s not assured. Energy spent is based on incentive. Value stored isn’t directly correlated, that’s a result of price which results from buyer…

1) the point is, we’ve just started

2)

How is it not assured that bitcoin will evolve? It evolves all the time. Are you even following the project?

Energy spent correlates with incentive, incentive is based on price, price is based on demand/value. Where is demand/perceived value derived from is debatable.

The rest of your message equally applies to all other endeavors where early movers have profited. Yes it’s a bubble, yes markets are inefficient, yes people get hurt, how is any of that different from the what was happening in other sectors? Cryptocurrencies are here to stay.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#80
post #78

All XXXcoin currencies are Ponzi schemes, in effect. Their "growth" is fueled almost entirely by new investors dumping cash into the system from which no one takes (can take[1]) anything out. That's a pyramid. Eventually when the investment money runs out[2], the support will fall over. The only distinction between this and a Ponzi scheme is that there are (probably) no single fraudsters at the top ready to run off w…

What a load of BS. Of course you can sell off a large Bitcoin holding. People do it all the time. That you think otherwise is ignorance and bias.
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