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Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

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Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#31
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

Why does one painting sell for $10 and another for $100 million?

People can put value in whatever they want. I don't think there's a real objective way to say "oh yeah, it's mathematically proven that a diamond ring should cost $10,000...or a $1,000,000 if it's say Marilyn Monroe's ring, and that a single Bitcoin should have a value of no more than $10."

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#32
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

Where I come from your nickname would soon be "4-fingers"

Same risk with a $10k diamond ring, right? Yet people buy those from Tiffany's.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#33
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

Where I come from your nickname would soon be "4-fingers"

Is that also true for diamond ring wearers?

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#34
post #23
post #2

Filecoin is a huge disappointment to me. IPFS is fantastic technology, but the main developers getting sidetracked with yet another scammy ICO is the last thing we need.

Filecoin ICO was when I lost interest in IPFS because I realised its developers were not as like-minded to me as I had hoped.

Well, yeah.

They saw dollar signs and got bit by the ICO bug. Truth be told, I still like the idea of Filecoin as a method to get around the problem of Tragedy of the Commons.

But overvalued and overhyped indeed.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#35
post #21
post #7

I think it would be helpful if the authors disclosed whether they invested in Filecoin. I didn't really see it anywhere. Did I miss it?

Author here: we did not invest; nor are we invested in any of the competitor projects mentioned in the article.

other author here, no ICO investments. We're actually working for many years on a similar system, non-profit non-ICO based. We know this scientific area a bit (see my other comment).

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#36
post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

Generalization: Bitcoin jewelry.

And bitcoinjewelry.com seems to be taken -- somebody's already on the case. I'm not looking forward to it.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#37
post #14
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

The bad news is that Diamond was able to correlate to status, a strong (if subjective) value that is part of humanity since always. BTC only appeal is its value as money ... Startup idea: Bitcoin wedding rings. A beautiful gold ring with a private key engraved on the inside. Give your loved one the gift of BTC! Your commitment to each other, eternalized on the global blockchain. Gentlemen may prefer blondes, but the…

I think that jewelry should have a property of showing off, so hidden private key wouldn't work that well. You need to have some mechanism how to show status. And that nicety factor was driven mostly by women decorum.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#38
post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see two drawbacks to the technology: 1) data storage with trusted centrally controlled infrastructure will always be cheaper (probably much cheaper) because you need far more redundancy in an untrusted network and the centralized infrastructure has superior economies of scale. 2) Your (encrypted) data is public so you are relying on the platform having zero exploitable bugs ever, which is just not a smart assumptio…

(1) Is true. For data worth less than the risk of your cloud vendor doing something you don't like with it, well, economics, as always, applies. For (2), there's nothing preventing nested encryption, if your threat model dictates.

Nested encryption doesn't change anything. The nested encryption scheme would have to be perfect as well, which is also a bad assumption.

Even if you assume your crypto scheme is perfect you are still giving adversaries unlimited access to brute force your key.

For security conscious parties (corp, gov, mostly) encryption is a failsafe when other layers of physical security fail. No one is trusting encryption to be their sole means of securing their data.

Not to mention that if you put data on an untrusted system you lose the ability to track break attempts and detect breaches if they do occur.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#39
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

I don't think Bitcoin was designed as a scheme, but it's effectively been turned into an MLM scheme and a brilliant one at that.

I'm trying to hire a PR firm for a project and I've come across a handful of firms that have been hired to promote BTC.

Think about that for a minute: if BTC is distributed - then who on earth is paying massive $$$ for PR firms to be hustling BTC in the press? Massive BTC owners - that's who.

Also problematic is so many in the press reporting on it have positions in BTC they are not disclosing (although this might be changing).

And every owner of BTC seems to be a willing (or unwitting) participant in the propagandization simply by commenting it up on the various boards and chats around the internet.

It's an amazing phenom - the intersection of cool tech, the internet - and age old ponzi/pyramid schemes.

And it has not even yet hit mainstream - most readers here might think BTC is 'old hat' but it takes a long time for things to hit mainstreet - and even after they hit mainstreet USA, it takes a while to hit 'mainstreet globally'. Remember: when all your friends were on Facebook? It tooks several years for 'everyone in the world' to be on it.

The barrier to growth is that it is quite tricky to buy - my Mother is on Facebook and she will never by BTC unless there are some real changes - though I can see a 3rd party creating a solution.

Do you know Glen Beck's scammy 'buy gold from us' commercials, where people buy gold in coin format basically at 20% above market value?

The 'buy Gold' phenom used to hustle gold does well among those 'end of the world / I don't trust the government types' - the same people who buy 'end of the world seeds' (from Glen Beck as well!) - and BTC fits in perfectly with this narrative.

So - get ready for 'Glenn Beck supported Bitcoin Wallet' - then it will get really big, possibly go global. And then, who knows.

So many interesting outcomes: if there is too much noise about it being used in organized crime I can see a Scandinavian country banning it, with talk of EU banning it ... the US could move quickly to do something. On some level - this will actually strengthen BTC among the 'anti government' crowd.

For it to lose price, there kind of has to be a systematic reason for it to do so - and kind of a panic. Once the press starts touting 'BTC Crash' - you can be sure it will happen - though there are enough massive, institutional holders that it won't likely go to zero.

I think it will be around for a long while though - my guess is that there is some kind of crash at some point, but not to zero, some governments clamp down, and then people over a long period of time just stop talking about it and using it.

Re: Is Filecoin a $257 million Ponzi scheme? [pdf]

#40
post #3

edit: Weird, I thought I was commenting on another thread, about Nobel laureates criticizing Bitcoin. I saw it on my phone, then opened HN at my notebook to comment. I misread the title and commented here, but now I can't find the correct thread (was it flagged?). I am growing this idea that Bitcoin (and any cryptocurrency that is affected by aggressive price growth) is an anti-fragile indirect multilevel marketing s…

Well, bitcoin is actually solving a real world problem, unlike diamond. Seems way too much effort and thinking for a ponzi, I mean the result is actually groundbreaking work.
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