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Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

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Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#191

Post by Steltek »

ehllo wrote: post #148
fastball wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's not like you have a right to appear in Google's search results... I'll rag on Google's poor support as much as the next guy, but only when it's warranted. ProtonMail and anyone else that gets delisted / what-have-you is not Google's client and shouldn't expect first-class support for things like this.

It is not about the right to appear in Google's search results. It is about abusing market dominance to put competing businesses at disadvantage. There are also other running/solved cases/investigations against Google. http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/case_details.cf... http://ec.europa.eu/competition/elojade/isef/index.cfm?fusea...

You're strongly implying some kind of targeting by Google. Whereas the parent comments above you indicate simply a lack of caring by ProtonMail to improve its ranking or a lack of free general support by Google to any website that happens, not just ProtonMail.

Asking Google to be responsive to any website demanding special treatment for higher search rankings is unreasonable. Best practices are published and tools are available. It's hard to see monopolistic abuse there.

The only difference is that Gmail (and other Google products) are listed when you, shockingly, go to google.com. Are you saying Google can't mention Google products on google.com? Do you think gmail is somehow not as popular as it is and wouldn't rate the #1 spot for searches for email?

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#192

Post by kyrra »

mintplant wrote: post #160

Relatedly, Google refuses to list my personal site (spinda.net) for reasons I can't discern. It only shows up if one searches for the exact domain itself, and even then as a bare entry with no description. I've tried submitting the URL through every avenue Google offers for recrawling—no dice.

I'm assuming you set up your site in webmaster tools[0]? If there is a problem, it should report it to you.

Besides that, there is not much on your site that is of value as to why Google would link to it. It just links to your other projects other sites that you are on. If I do a google search for your name + "spinda", your Github, Twitter, and Keybase entries come up. Then search result #12 or so is your website. I'd say Google is actually doing this right, as it's giving users a direct link to the sites of "value", while your meta-link site may not be as much value to people. Google would rather have people get directly to useful, than having to click through to other sites first.

Now, if you had something on your site that was changing (a blog or something), it may be ranked higher. But as of now, I don't see why Google would put it high up in the rankings.

[0] https://www.google.com/webmasters/tools/

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#193

Post by zbentley »

mcguire wrote: post #183
zbentley wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't think advertisers care about the impartiality of the results, so long as their ads are getting eyeballs/clicks. An advertiser might care if there were another, more impartial search engine that was drawing those eyeballs away, but that seems vanishingly unlikely given the current ubiquity of Google as a household name and company. Sure, DuckDuckGo or whatever might draw some of the more tech-literate or paran…

I'm sorry, are you arguing that it is all right for Google to abuse it's monopoly position because it is a monopoly? At least, from the advertiser's position?

I'm not making an argument about the rightness of any action. GP suggested that there exist

> ...advertisers who operate on the assumption that the users see Google searches as mostly efficient and impartial.

I do not believe that is factually accurate. I think advertisers don't have a compelling reason to care whether or not searches are impartial for the reasons I expressed.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#194

Post by coldtea »

fastball wrote: post #93
coldtea wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> So what exactly is your solution? What law do you put in place, precisely? Forced (inter-)nationalization of Google under the control of the UN. > Google has to provide consumers with whatever information they want, whenever they want it, free of charge? Pretty much yes. Charges should be bared by the Global Federation of Essential Services.

You're going to nationalize Google before nationalizing the internet itself? I think you're missing the forest for the trees.

Sure, but then again Google is like 30% of the internet (if not more in traffic, if we add YouTube in the mix).

And even more important than 30% perhaps, culturally, business-wise, etc.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#195

Post by coldtea »

chapium wrote: post #143
coldtea wrote: post #73

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It's not like you have a right to appear in Google's search results... It should be, though. It's not 1776. A website like Google is more than a company, it's a public service with immense power of manipulation and influence over countless industries. The law shouldn't be written like we live in the stone age.

Google is literally just a company.

United Fruit was also "just a company" but it could topple governments and influence politics.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Banana_republic

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#196

Post by kllrnohj »

WalterGR wrote: post #144
mark_l_watson wrote: post #114

There are many major actors, both corporate and governmental, that don’t like privacy enhancing services like ProtonMail. No conspiracy theory, just large actors acting ruthlessly in their own self interest. This year old article is a bit bogus though. As other pointed out, the hit on SEO came from changing from .ch to .com ProtonMail, and other similar services, deserve to be supported in my opinion. I have recommen…

This year old article is a bit bogus though. As other pointed out, the hit on SEO came from changing from .ch to .com Could you point to a source for this? I'm curious, because the article says: "After that public exchange, ProtonMail was apparently informed within a few days that Google had 'fixed something' — and after that it was able to see immediately positive results" Switching to a different domain shouldn't _…

> Switching to a different domain shouldn't _delist_ a site from Google's SERPs as long as the switch is done properly...

Is there any reason to believe ProtonMail did the switch properly? Maybe Google's fix was just to manually correct for ProtonMail botching the switch?

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#197

Post by mintplant »

kyrra wrote: post #192
mintplant wrote: post #160

Relatedly, Google refuses to list my personal site (spinda.net) for reasons I can't discern. It only shows up if one searches for the exact domain itself, and even then as a bare entry with no description. I've tried submitting the URL through every avenue Google offers for recrawling—no dice.

I'm assuming you set up your site in webmaster tools[0]? If there is a problem, it should report it to you. Besides that, there is not much on your site that is of value as to why Google would link to it. It just links to your other projects other sites that you are on. If I do a google search for your name + "spinda", your Github, Twitter, and Keybase entries come up. Then search result #12 or so is your website. I'…

> Then search result #12 or so is your website.

Oh, that's new. Previously it didn't appear at all in the results, even for specific, targeted queries matching the site content. And I see it's now showing a title and cache link (but no blurb), whereas before it appeared as:

    spinda.net
    https://spinda.net
and only for the query "spinda.net", in a special position up at the top.

Re: Why Did ProtonMail Vanish from Google Search Results? (2016)

#199

Post by [deleted] »

saalweachter wrote: post #155

"Google's search results should contain exactly what I personally think they should in every case," said the HN commentator. "But they mustn't be personalized," said his boon companion. "Oh no, personalization is Evil." They nodded in agreement and upvoted each other's comments.

[deleted]
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