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In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

nytimes.com

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Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#141

Post by akgerber »

pragmatic wrote: post #118

Isn't this a simple function of population density? Can we just say that and be done with this stupid argument? If the US had the population density of Japan or parts of Europe, yes we could all bike and have super fast broadband. That's not the case.

Most American cities and streetcar suburbs are built at a density where it is very practical to bike. Even many new suburbs are built at a bikable density, though the non-grid/non-connecting infrastructure is often such that trips are twice as long as they should be, and in high-speed traffic.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#142

Post by organicgrant »

anamax wrote: post #126
pchristensen wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

"I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one." In the US, it's basically illegal to build any kind of development that doesn't require a car or two. Some exceptions, like Kentlands in MD, or Stapleton in Denver, require developers to prepare plans in advance, lobby for variances to zoning and parking requirements. It's also harder to get fi…

> It's also harder to get financing for non-standard projects. That's the market speaking.

I spent ten years as a real estate broker and developer. The market wants improvement to zoning codes to reflect current (post 1955) sensibilities. Unfortuneately archaic zoning codes and change-fearing planning and zoning commissions prevent most progressive projects from ever getting off the ground.

There are always exceptions to the rule in some localities...but as a nation... the U.S. is being held back by laws written 50 years ago. Mandatory setbacks (20 ft between buildings, mandatory front and rear yards, minimum number of parking spaces...all practices counterintuitive to effective land use.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#143

Post by run4yourlives »

dwiel wrote: post #112
run4yourlives wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Belgium, when a car hits a bicyclist, the car driver's insurance will always pay for bodily damage of the bicyclist, even if the bicyclist is at fault. Sorry, but doesn't anyone have an issue with this? Why is there an expectation that cyclists cannot possibly be held responsible for their actions? By this logic, if my mini hits a bus, I shouldn't be responsible, even if I ran a red light. I tend to agree wit…

Biking by itself is not that dangerous. Biking near cars is dangerous. If you want to drive around in a 2 ton vehicle with the power to kill, you better damn be responsible for it. Also, there is an imbalance in incentives to not get in an accident. If a car and a bike get in a wreck, the person driving has almost no risk of injury where the person on bike is at risk of dying or getting seriously injured, depending o…

Biking by itself is not that dangerous

It is if you are a pedestrian. This is also typical of a cyclist's attitude that their vehicle is the only one that matters; impossible to do any harm - it is most certainly possible for a cyclist to cause an accident between two other vehicles that is caused by their lack of due care. (e.g. car A hits car B instead of hitting cyclist C that is running a red.)

You're suggesting C walks as if nothing happened, I'm suggesting that it is an irresponsible law that allows this.

If you want to drive around in a 2 ton vehicle with the power to kill, you better damn be responsible for it.

I'm not suggesting that a car driver should not be at fault. I'm suggesting that all individuals on the road be held to the same standard.

Also, there is an imbalance in incentives to not get in an accident.

I realize this, which is why I provided my example, specifically. Do you not agree that the same imbalance exists for the driver of the mini?

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#144

Post by run4yourlives »

roc wrote: post #119
run4yourlives wrote: post #102

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Here in Belgium, when a car hits a bicyclist, the car driver's insurance will always pay for bodily damage of the bicyclist, even if the bicyclist is at fault. Sorry, but doesn't anyone have an issue with this? Why is there an expectation that cyclists cannot possibly be held responsible for their actions? By this logic, if my mini hits a bus, I shouldn't be responsible, even if I ran a red light. I tend to agree wit…

I'm not seeing a huge difference between that and the state of vehicle laws in my home state (Michigan). Here, if you strike another car, you're at fault. Regardless of what another vehicle does, you're expected to maintain safe stopping distance and an 'exit' if your lane needs to be vacated in an emergency. I have a friend who actually did get a ticket for hitting a car that ran a red light. Granted, the car runnin…

Red light accidents are tricky and each one is assessed on its particulars. Usually, regardless of the other vehicle's actions, if you are judged to be able to avoid an accident, and you don't, you are being careless, hence at fault.

A lot of jurisdictions have "no-fault" legislation however that gets in the way with regards to insurance.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#145

Post by BrandonM »

run4yourlives wrote: post #138
BrandonM wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I upvoted you, but I found myself wondering why you have a 30km commute. You mention that you would be more humanly fulfilled if you spent more time with your kids; why are you fine with wasting an hour commuting every day? I've been paying more attention lately to perceived requirements. So often we assume that we have to continue living or working where we currently are, and that we have to build our lives around t…

why you have a 30km commute. Because, if you understand Vancouver, you realize that if you want a house, and don't have millions, you need to live in the burbs. It's just too damn expensive here. That said, I see it as an issue to be corrected, however that takes time. Sorry, but I'm not raising a family of 4 in a condo, based on the experience of raising a family of 3 in a condo.

Fair enough. I'm glad to hear that you have it in your mind to correct the issue. Good luck!

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#146

Post by organicgrant »

khafra wrote: post #122
organicgrant wrote: post #5

Ever notice that in much of Europe bikes get used for work as well as general transportation/play? In EU: postman, grocery getting/delivery, common commute vehicle, etc etc In USA: NYC bike couriers.

I would buy an Xtracycle or other cargo bicycle if it didn't cost more than the cars some of my friends drive :(. Perhaps they're cheaper in Europe.

Xtracycle add-on model isn't that expensive. Last I knew - like $169.

I have friends that use trailers from http://bikesatwork.com/

Very inexpensive. Easily attached, and you can use your bike regularly whenever you want.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#147

Post by masklinn »

eru wrote: post #88
organicgrant wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You hit the real root of it there. Detroit auto bought out the passenger rail system in LA in the late 40s, then shut it down (true story). Oil drives concrete & consumption. Crack in a US sidewalk? Break it up and pour a new pad. Euro sidewalk? All pavers. Pull 'em up, fix a sewer line or whatever and put the same ones back down.

What do you want to tell with the tale about the sidewalks? We also have some concrete sidewalks in Europe. And pouring new concrete isn't too bad. You can even re-use the old broken down concrete for some things. The trend even seems to be to make Autobahnen out of concrete. (Although that's not very relevant I guess, because Autobahnen are rarely digged up.)

> The trend even seems to be to make Autobahnen out of concrete.

It's not exactly a trend, I've seen concrete autobahnen more than 15 years ago, and the early ones were concrete as well.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#148

Post by organicgrant »

I like this article, because it's really about noncomformity. Hackers aren't afraid of social and cultural norms. To be truly excellent, you can't follow the crowd.

98% of zoning laws in the US are about maintaining the status quo. The status quo is sort of meh.

Hackers, bikers, entrepreneurs, and other daring souls mix it up. And the world is a better place for it.

Mix it up.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#149

Post by ugh »

JohnFritzen wrote: post #108
ugh wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Bikes are great, but not very practical … if the infrastructure isn’t there. You know, city planning and stuff. I think the goal is not to get people to drive 50 miles to work, the goal is to make it possible for them to live so close to work (or appropriate public transport infrastructure) that they can bike there (or use public transport). You are right, bikes wouldn’t work in every case but sometimes they can repl…

Bikes already have the infrastructure, they are called "roads".

It’s mot as simple as that. It’s also not as simple as just adding some bike lines. The city for example needs to be fairly compact to be bike friendly — which means sprawl should be avoided. And sprawl is something you can’t just remove once it’s there. You also want to make sure that there are several big supermarkets at one end of the city and nothing much elsewhere. And so on. Those are all tricky problems.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#150

Post by Luc »

dylanz wrote: post #127
Luc wrote: post #56

I think having the right legal framework helps a lot to get a good bicycle culture. Here in Belgium, when a car hits a bicyclist, the car driver's insurance will always pay for bodily damage of the bicyclist, even if the bicyclist is at fault. Most streets where I live (in the center of Antwerp) are one-way for cars, but two-way for bicycles. And cars are limited to 30 km/h. My wife goes to work on her bicycle and ge…

Luc, can you describe your wife's employers bicycle policy? I'm trying to set one up at my company as well, and haven't found the ideal plan yet. Suggestions welcome!

I don't have access to the exact agreement at the moment.

My wife's employer, funnily enough, is a petroleum company. I think the bike policies of the company are those set out by Collective Bargaining Agreement (negotiations between employer and employee organisations) for the whole petroleum sector, but I can't find a good English language article.

Colruyt, a supermarket company in Belgium, is well known as having a successful bicycle policy. E.g.

- company-owned bicycles placed at the train station closest to the HQ so people can use the train to commute

- free bicycles for employees who use them at least 3 times a week for their commute

- 0.15 eurocent per kilometer compensation

This is just the bicycle part of it though. They also have programs to facilitate and encourage car-pooling, or to encourage use of scooters instead of cars. Their trucks must be >95% full before delivering, they use rail as much as possible etc. (Some of this is from memory, don't shoot me if I'm off by a few cent or percent).

Coincidentally Colruyt is also the most profitable and fastest growing supermarket chain in Belgium.

One more thing - a lot of this is backed by laws or measures in the tax code. E.g. the 'compensation per km' is tax-free to the employee and there are likewise tax reductions on the employer's side. So these things may be harder to implement in a different country.

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