Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

nytimes.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

121–130 of 206 posts

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#121

Post by roc »

pragmatic wrote: post #118

Isn't this a simple function of population density? Can we just say that and be done with this stupid argument? If the US had the population density of Japan or parts of Europe, yes we could all bike and have super fast broadband. That's not the case.

The US doesn't have the population density of Japan or Europe because of our zoning laws. The barriers to even try these kinds of developments in the US are massive. The barriers to build yet-another cul-de-sac subdivision of mcmansions that are proven to increase congestion, travel-time, stress, infrastructure cost, individual waste and municipal waste are non-existent.

Zoning laws dictate density. We have sprawl because our laws engineered it and we were lucky enough to have the wealth and space to allow such frivolous waste to continue for so long.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#122

Post by khafra »

organicgrant wrote: post #5

Ever notice that in much of Europe bikes get used for work as well as general transportation/play? In EU: postman, grocery getting/delivery, common commute vehicle, etc etc In USA: NYC bike couriers.

I would buy an Xtracycle or other cargo bicycle if it didn't cost more than the cars some of my friends drive :(. Perhaps they're cheaper in Europe.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#123

Post by MichaelSalib »

pragmatic wrote: post #118

Isn't this a simple function of population density? Can we just say that and be done with this stupid argument? If the US had the population density of Japan or parts of Europe, yes we could all bike and have super fast broadband. That's not the case.

I don't think this argument works. For starters, parts of the US are very high density: density in NYC or Boston or SFO exceeds that of many European cities. And yet we don't have super fast broadband for super low prices in those places in general, even though though the density is high enough to support it. It seems a little ridiculous that people in extremely high density environments in the US have much worse broadband options that people living in rural Sweden.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#124

Post by starkfist »

jacquesm wrote: post #100
starkfist wrote: post #96

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've ridden a fixed gear bike exclusively for the past 15 years. (alright, that's not exactly true... I have a dutch bike for groceries and recently bought a Brompton for traveling) It was built for me by the patron saint of internet cyclists, Sheldon Brown (RIP). http://www.sheldonbrown.com/fixed.html You just need a front brake to dump speed, and ride a gearing suitable for your environment. For instance, in NYC th…

Going fast and having just a front brake can easily cause you to do a forward flip. 80% of your stopping power is in the front brake, but if you're going very fast engaging the front brake for an emergency stop can make a bad situation worse. That's a pretty sad story there, I read a bit on his site and he seems to have been a very nice and knowledgeable guy. I'm pretty sure he would have smiled at the way you charac…

It's easy to get tossed on any bike with an aggressive geometry if you are going fast and slam the front brake. Personally, I do not think the most popular bike styles in the USA have the right geometry for commuting in the city. The default accident for stopping abruptly should not be flying over the handlebars, which is what happens on road/track frames and MTB frames. My bikes are set up more like dutch bikes or beach cruisers, which have a very upright geometry with my bodyweight over the back wheel.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#125

Post by roc »

ugh wrote: post #7
organicgrant wrote: post #5

Ever notice that in much of Europe bikes get used for work as well as general transportation/play? In EU: postman, grocery getting/delivery, common commute vehicle, etc etc In USA: NYC bike couriers.

I have met quite a few Americans who think of biking as a sport first and as a means of transport second which is exactly opposite to how I perceive biking (I’m from Germany). That might have something to do with city planning (many places where you would want to go are actually realistically reachable by bike), it might (and I’m quite fond of that hypothesis) also have something to do with driving age. 16 in the USA…

It's considered sport first, because transportation by bike is usually impractical in the US. (Outside of maybe a half-dozen cities and some one-off "I work a mile from home" anecdotes, it's almost entirely impractical)

The average commute (one-way) is about 25km. There will be no bike lanes. The drivers on the road will generally have no clue how they should deal with you, if they even notice you. The sidewalks (where US bikers sometimes find refuge, as no-one walks in America either) are sporadic, at best. Your destination probably won't have so much as a simple bike rack, let alone a shower.

Because of this, when adults in America think of biking, they (generally) think of putting their bikes on the car and driving to a place that was designed to have decent/sane space for biking. (usually parks)

Children can effectively bike around subdivisions, mostly because they have nowhere to go aside from their friends houses and the corner store.

So biking is seen by adults as either being sport, or --frankly-- a whimsical sort of transport. Because to bike in most the US you have to be, in some sense, not serious about trying to get anywhere.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#126

Post by anamax »

pchristensen wrote: post #111
brc wrote: post #66

I get the point - and I support the development of car-free suburbs for people who want them. Streets safe for children, people saying hello instead of staring from behind closed windows, etc. Less local pollution, more friendly streets, less accidents : all pluses. I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one. Further, not everywhere is sui…

"I just don't want to see some zealot telling me I can't have a car, and that I am some sort of evil person for having one." In the US, it's basically illegal to build any kind of development that doesn't require a car or two. Some exceptions, like Kentlands in MD, or Stapleton in Denver, require developers to prepare plans in advance, lobby for variances to zoning and parking requirements. It's also harder to get fi…

> It's also harder to get financing for non-standard projects.

That's the market speaking.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#127

Post by dylanz »

Luc wrote: post #56

I think having the right legal framework helps a lot to get a good bicycle culture. Here in Belgium, when a car hits a bicyclist, the car driver's insurance will always pay for bodily damage of the bicyclist, even if the bicyclist is at fault. Most streets where I live (in the center of Antwerp) are one-way for cars, but two-way for bicycles. And cars are limited to 30 km/h. My wife goes to work on her bicycle and ge…

Luc, can you describe your wife's employers bicycle policy? I'm trying to set one up at my company as well, and haven't found the ideal plan yet. Suggestions welcome!

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#128

Post by sliverstorm »

jacquesm wrote: post #75
sliverstorm wrote: post #62

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not going to say that we should all be in cars, but I used to ride my bicycle everywhere- I ride motorcycles now, and I still get a lot of the upsides- open to the environment, a physical activity (though more mild than biking at a hard pace), and my stress levels are lower. But it has one more huge upside; back when I bicycled all the time, I'd always arrive everywhere hot and sweaty. Workplaces can install show…

I don't think it's fair to class riding a motorcycle as a physical activity, if riding a motorcycle is then so is riding a car. Yes, I've done my bit of biking and yes, it's more of a 'workout' (if that's even an appropriate term) compared to riding a car but it's nowhere near the exercise you get on a bike, either by duration or by distance travelled. Also, most of the memories I've got from riding motorcycles long…

Oh, of course, unless you're racing it's nothing close to bicycles. It's just more than cars, and I feel like that makes a bit of a difference

If you're doing it right, you are stiff as a board from using the same muscles to hold proper posture constantly.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#129

Post by markeroon »

CaptainDecisive wrote: post #98
harscoat wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To illustrate the "humanely fulfilling": while students in Rotterdam, we had to ride our bikes back 5km from a pub... it just started raining, but while biking the sky literaly fell on us. We arrived soaking wet, drenched. Among us, this remains one of our best memories.

I hear you. I remember when I lived in Manhattan on the Upper East Side coming back from a party somewhere in deepest darkest Queens, getting off the subway and biking up the path along the East River. Middle of the night and bucketing with rain. My roomie and I were riding mountain bikes and played all the way home, jumping off every little bump in sight and charging through all the puddles. We got back to our apart…

That is awesome -- it's almost unfathomable to your average commuter that the journey itself can be even better than what awaits one at the destination.

Getting soaked on the way to work can be a pain, but if one just carries a rain suit in his/her bag then this will never be an issue.

Re: In German Suburb, Life Goes On Without Cars (2009)

#130

Post by BrandonM »

run4yourlives wrote: post #104
harscoat wrote: post #24

21st Century, that anybody can argue against (in this thread or elsewhere) that going by bike to work is way better, healthier, more humanly fulfilling, than by car leaves me speechless. Vote for mayors pro bike roads or ask for showers at work, there is always a solution.

Better is the word I'm going to hit on in your comment. I'd love to bike to work. I've even considered it actually, this in spite of the following: - I live in Vancouver. It rains 5 months of the year. - I have a 30km commute, my car is faster (By a longshot, not by a few minutes). - My car does not require I have a shower after getting to work. - My car is more adaptable: I can carry extra work home, I can stop for…

I upvoted you, but I found myself wondering why you have a 30km commute. You mention that you would be more humanly fulfilled if you spent more time with your kids; why are you fine with wasting an hour commuting every day?

I've been paying more attention lately to perceived requirements. So often we assume that we have to continue living or working where we currently are, and that we have to build our lives around that. The truth is contrary to that: almost everything in your life can be changed, and it's often much easier than you think.

Post reply on HN