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Bitcoin hits $10,000

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Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#251

Post by ErikAugust »

will_brown wrote: post #216
wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

>No one likes to talk about that though, they like to demonize bitcoin which actually does something gold could never do. Just playing devils advocate, but you can't replicate/duplicate gold. On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new bl…

You say 21M "cryptocoins" but you couldn't, however, create 21M BTC arbitrarily.

As long as that number stays the same (it isn't completely immutable) then BTC has real scarcity - making it a store of value, like gold. Throw in some additional properties that BTC has that gold does not, and an argument can be made that BTC is at least a decent value store.

Even at $100,000/BTC, Bitcoin would still have a ~1/5th of the market cap of all gold mined.

And in a truly universal sense - gold is made by stars. There are 100 billion stars. There's only one Satoshi in the known universe ;)

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#252

Post by sowbug »

spondyl wrote: post #177
sowbug wrote: post #158

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Ordinary people (48.3% of them) aren't on the internet, either. http://www.internetworldstats.com/stats.htm

Even then, there are plenty who are on the internet without really understanding what it is they're using. They just know how to pattern match (netflix.com will take me to movies + tv but no idea how or where it comes from) I think on a surface level, they'd say sure, digital money, why wouldn't that be the future but they assume it comes from an "authoritative" source such as the UN or a government.

I wonder whether people associate money with government simply because that's what most money labeling says.

If I were living in a world where money had just been invented, I suppose I'd care mainly that whoever was issuing it was trustworthy enough not to issue extra on the side.* Otherwise I wouldn't really care where it came from.

I'm not sure if I'm agreeing with you, disagreeing, or just continuing the discussion.

*Eventually I'd come to understand that inflation is not necessarily a bad thing, but my first instinct would be that I'd value money only if it were scarce.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#253

Post by dajohnson89 »

will_brown wrote: post #216
wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

>No one likes to talk about that though, they like to demonize bitcoin which actually does something gold could never do. Just playing devils advocate, but you can't replicate/duplicate gold. On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new bl…

the decentralization of btc (# of miners and holders) is hard to beat...

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#254

Post by cs702 »

wintom wrote: post #17

“Rosenstreich at online trading firm Swissquote said bitcoin’s surge harks to the surprises of the U.K. referendum on European Union membership and President Trump’s election. “We have underestimated the populist movements,” he said. “There is growing unease on how central banks and governments are managing fiat currencies. Ordinary people globally understand why a decentralized asset is the ultimate safe haven.”” Th…

Gold's market cap in US dollars is currently $7.1 trillion; Bitcoin's is under $0.2 trillion:

            Current market capitalization in US dollars
  
  Global money supply (broad)              over $90.0 trillion [a]
  US dollar money supply (M2)                   $13.8 trillion [b]
  Euro money supply (M2)                        $13.2 trillion [c]
  All coins and banknotes in circulation         $7.6 trillion [d]
  All gold ever mined                            $7.1 trillion [e]
  Bitcoin                                  under $0.2 trillion [f]
Sources: [a] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [b] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/M2 [c] http://sdw.ecb.europa.eu/reports.do?node=1000003501 [d] http://money.visualcapitalist.com/worlds-money-markets-one-v... [e] https://www.fool.com/investing/2017/08/17/how-does-bitcoins-... [f] https://coinmarketcap.com/currencies/bitcoin/

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#255

Post by modeless »

nl wrote: post #139
modeless wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Satoshi is almost certainly dead. No living person could resist the temptation to talk about their creation of a 100 billion dollar phenomenon. Two plausible candidates who died at about the right time are Hal Finney and Dave Kleiman.

Plenty of artists have tried to stay anonymous. Happy to stay anonymous and leave a huge amount of money alone is an unusual mix, but the diversity of how people think should surprise no one.

Name an artist who has stayed anonymous under focused public scrutiny as effectively as Satoshi. The only one I can think of that comes close to this level of exposure is Banksy, and his identity is right there on his Wikipedia page for anyone who really cares to know.

Besides, Banksy does plenty of communication despite his supposed anonymity. It's not the anonymity; the total lack of communication from Satoshi is what makes me suspect he is dead. Even famously reclusive artists such as Bill Watterson don't cut off all communication with everyone.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#256

Post by pault »

Lerc wrote: post #29
jacquesm wrote: post #2

Makes you wonder what triggers people have for themselves to sell their 'stash'. 10 fold increases in a year won't last for very long.

I feel like the $10,000 mark was a bit of a self fulfilling prophecy. There were a number of people early in the year saying $10,000 by the end. It will be interesting to see where it goes from here. Last few bubbles had phases of * hey, bitcoin is going up * Bitcoin is going way up, This rate seems unsustainable. * OK, this is fucking crazy now. (this lasts about a day) * I'd say we're in the late stages of the seco…

Seriously? It was $6000 a month ago... to me this is firmly in the fucking crazy stage. It feels a lot like the last run up to $1,100 before the 80% drop (I cashed out at $1,000 just before the pop by dumb luck, but failed to buy back in).

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#257

Post by ErikAugust »

drcross wrote: post #243
will_brown wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>No one likes to talk about that though, they like to demonize bitcoin which actually does something gold could never do. Just playing devils advocate, but you can't replicate/duplicate gold. On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new bl…

>On the other hand I could create 21M cryptocoins on a blockchain (calling them Bitcoin2 or even just Bitcoin if it pleases). I can make them function identically, similarly or more efficiently than Bitcoin. I can create a new blockchain (network) or put these coins on an existing blockchain (say the Ethereum blockchain). How much would you pay for all 21M Bitcoin? How much would you pay me to create you 21M Bitcoin2…

Right, it's not irony. All things couldn't exist without elements, like gold. Truisms aren't ironic.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#258

Post by bluetwo »

wallace_f wrote: post #236
bluetwo wrote: post #212

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No amount of debate over the validity of the 2008-2009 financial crisis and resolution makes bitcoin any less of a fiat currency.

What? It seems like you are just changing the subject here? I thought you disagreed with the idea of my grandparent post, but it seems that now you want to say that bitcoin is a fiat currency?

Let me make it easy: I disagree with everything you posted.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#259

Post by kamaal »

0bsidian wrote: post #81
fullshark wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is nonsense. This is being driven by speculation / minuscule interest rates / greed. Very little of the demand for btc in the past year is due to lack of faith in institutions.

Let me try to make the case for why Bitcoin could be a useful beyond greed. I can't really think of many reasons why you would use crypto to pay for a coffee or a sandwich if you live in the West (or frankly, even most developing nations). On the other hand, I can definitely see the utility in a censorship-resistant digital medium to store wealth. To me, this latter use case has much, much more potential to serve the…

The negative examples in this case would be equally if no more scarier.

Also unlike most people think, these days nobody has their money stored beneath their mattress.

More or less all money, is invested some where.

Re: Bitcoin hits $10,000

#260

Post by alexbeloi »

shitgoose wrote: post #217
alexbeloi wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You're describing money laundering and selectively choosing to represent the positive examples of it.

money laundering is legitimising illicit profits but disguising them as legitimate income. none of the examples above fits this definition.actually, it is the opposite - protecting your legitimate gains from illegitimate actions of government.

You are right, I am using money laundering to mean 'anonymous monetary transfer of arbitrary size/value', which most governments don't allow as far as I know.
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