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Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

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Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#331
post #325

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why? There were property rights and people invested their capital to make money. What else do you need for capitalism?

Working Markets. In which you are free to enter, free to sell your products and services, free to set your prices, free to purchase or to refuse to. The more regulated and less free a market, the less capitalist and more socialist it is.

That was true for most businesses during the Nazi time and it is true in China now. It was also true during military dictatorships in South America. You can't call all of them socialist or the label loses its meaning.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#332
post #142

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> and they recently pissed off most of the geeks in the country with the new tax code. Interesting, would you like share some more information on that?

It's a new fiscal code that aims to change the way social contributions are payed, but has the side effect of lowering the salaries in the IT sector by about 6%. Many companies are rising salaries to make up for this, but the measure already annoyed a lot of people.

I see. For a minute there I thought this was the catch in Romania's recent impressive economic growth.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#333
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A couple of years back I was enthusiastic about the rise of social media for informing and coordinating citizens to fight injustice. Now that I'm older and wiser, I can tell you that no evolution or revolution can happen because of Facebook, only regression. Facebook is poison. I'll add to that. The internet is a great tool for coordinating citizens, spreading information, and fighting injustice. Having facebook , o…

Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter. These services don’t control ‘the’ flow of information, they are entirely additive to what we had before. Arguing that we have worse options for communication now is bizarre. So what is the non capitalist alternative? State controlled social media services? Really? That would be a better option in Romania right now? Facebook is far from perfect, I…

You seemed to have selectively seized on the work "capitalist" in the OPs post. Nowhere does the post seem to be an attack on capitalism. The OP stated:

>"Having facebook, or any similar monolithic capitalist behemoth ..."

All three words together "monolithic" + "capitalist" + "behemoth" need to be taken together, it is not the same thing as the same as just saying "capitalist."

>"These services don’t control ‘the’ flow of information, they are entirely additive to what we had before."

Except they are not additive for groups that never consumed the older mediums in the first place:

http://www.journalism.org/2015/06/01/facebook-top-source-for...

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#334

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right. Facebooks effective monopoly is an issue in and of itself- but that’s a separate issue. Humans online polarize themselves and split into sub groups. (Amazingly the sub groups can end up polarizing themselves.) Facebook has never dodged the issues forums has faced. The core issue is human behavior and nature.

Alternate perspective (not sure if I agree, just it’s possible) - humans were already polarized and split into sub groups. Now though it is far more apparent because people butt into each other all the time on the internet.

been on forums and modding actively right now.

I've seen polarization appear where none used to be before.

My view is that the web often results in a worst case scenario.

1) Text like books, are permanent - once written, you can always revisit them and they don't get erased

2) Voice is very good for real time expression of emotions you feel. But its never permanent, or easy to revisit. That momentary flash of emotion was never bottled and dissipated.

The net combines the worst of it.

Have an angry thread? You get triggered and write an angry response - and then go away.

Meanwhile, people keep coming to the thread, and it feels like an ongoing conversation - and now they start getting triggered - over and over again.

Its like having people exposed to an anger stimulus, randomly and at mass scale.

So its not just more apparent: It's not just tribe/group discovery - its straight up tribe/splitting and creation.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#335
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>A couple of years back I was enthusiastic about the rise of social media for informing and coordinating citizens to fight injustice. Now that I'm older and wiser, I can tell you that no evolution or revolution can happen because of Facebook, only regression. Facebook is poison. I'll add to that. The internet is a great tool for coordinating citizens, spreading information, and fighting injustice. Having facebook , o…

Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter. These services don’t control ‘the’ flow of information, they are entirely additive to what we had before. Arguing that we have worse options for communication now is bizarre. So what is the non capitalist alternative? State controlled social media services? Really? That would be a better option in Romania right now? Facebook is far from perfect, I…

>Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter.

So, like, three gifts at once?

Though, citation needed. The web was created by public funds, in a European public institution. The internet by army funds, in a US public institution.

What we call capitalism is just a way of organizing the economy that emerged circa 14-15th century (people have almost always bought and sold things, but not in a capitalist context).

Historically capitalism has never been the only game in town (and I'm not talking about communism either).

Whole societies and empires rose and flourished without it -- and they could have just as well created social media too, if they had the technology at the time. They have created tons of great stuff we now build upon anyway.

>These services don’t control ‘the’ flow of information, they are entirely additive to what we had before. Arguing that we have worse options for communication now is bizarre.

Of course they control the flow of information, that's how they make money.

That they don't control "the whole flow" or that they don't hold people at gunpoint to dictate their own flow is irrelevant for what we're discussing.

It's enough that they control a large enough flow, for enough people, to be hugely (and negatively) influential in the flow of overall information.

And of course, they're not neutral to the flows they allow.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#336
post #254

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter. These services don’t control ‘the’ flow of information, they are entirely additive to what we had before. Arguing that we have worse options for communication now is bizarre. So what is the non capitalist alternative? State controlled social media services? Really? That would be a better option in Romania right now? Facebook is far from perfect, I…

> Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter. So, like, three gifts at once? Though, citation needed. The web was created by public funds, in a European public institution. The internet by army funds, in a US public institution. What we call capitalism is just a way of organizing the economy that emerged circa 14-15th century (people have almost always bought and sold things, but not in a c…

Maybe Free Market was meant, instead of Capitalism

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Without Capitalism we wouldn’t have anything like Facebook or Twitter. So, like, three gifts at once? Though, citation needed. The web was created by public funds, in a European public institution. The internet by army funds, in a US public institution. What we call capitalism is just a way of organizing the economy that emerged circa 14-15th century (people have almost always bought and sold things, but not in a c…

Maybe Free Market was meant, instead of Capitalism

Even free market is a recent obsession. Societies historical had all kinds of protections, tariffs, and other measures (heck, not just Italian city states or Rome, the US itself had heavy tariffs, subsidies and such for most of its existence, until they established their economic and diplomatic dominance, and only then pretended like its all about the free market).

That's on top of the cultural, religious, civic and other restrictions on trade in the past.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#338
post #307

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You'd be hard pressed to find a historian, economist or political scientist who would call any of the 20th century's right-wing dictatorships 'socialist', regardless as to the extent of state intervention into the economy. Also, free movement of capital and 'Freedom' are not at all the same thing, and don't always exist in the same places at the same time. Capitalism can totally exist where there isn't a democracy. C…

You mean like “National Socialist German Workers' Party”?! I always found it funny they call it far right .

That's called branding. The name was chosen to be appealing to the German people, not to be an accurate description of their form of government. Unless you think North Korea (official name "Democratic People's Republic of Korea") is actually a democratic republic, this should not be a difficult concept to understand.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#339
post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> state was deeply involved in the economy, thus making it socialist. >Capitalism requires freedom, the opposite of dictatorship. You clearly have some amount of misunderstanding or an active bias/axe to grind. Suffice to say, that's not what any of those terms mean.

Socialism - “a political and economic theory of social organization which advocates that the means of production, distribution, and exchange should be owned or regulated by the community as a whole“

That definition clearly excludes any dictatorship because a dictatorship is by definition controlled by a dictator, not by the community as a whole.

Re: Facebook users in Romania see content related to street protests reviewed

#340
post #300

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Still no actual suggestion of an alternative.

Here's one: Mastodon [0]. It's decentralized, you can deploy your own instance, and doesn't (necessarily) rely on advertising. [0]: https://joinmastodon.org/

> It's decentralized, you can deploy your own instance

So it's useless as a social network. Not an alternative.

I wonder when will the anti-centralization people realize that their solutions are not for everyone, and that's why so many people don't care about them.

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