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The beginning of the end for copper wire

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Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#61

Post by Zenst »

Certainly an opportunity for VOIP services and a router with a PSTN connection so you can plug in your existing phone will work out as a perfect solution. Such routers been around for ages, some even have DECT built in.

One avenue that could be taken by the companies to mitigate any loss of voice service. Customer would be just changing the point they plug the phone in, socket wise and that would be that.

I had a Draytek 2910vg 10 years ago doing exactly that, so very very doable. But then, that was always a solution under the existing criteria and with that, this change just allows companies to not offer that solution. Which does raise one question - will customers be able to keep their existing number and port it to a VOIP provider of their choice? That is one aspect that could of been covered in these changes. That would certainly open up the markets and in a good way.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#62

Post by ztjio »

coding123 wrote: post #27

Its silly to think that copper itself is going away simply because the phone system won't be using much of it anymore, almost all electricity from AC to DC wires run over copper and various alloys.

This isn't about all copper wire. It's using copper to refer to the old copper wire based POTS.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#63

Post by walshemj »

mjevans wrote: post #35
knolan wrote: post #9

Copper can still play a role. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast

I consider that 'the option' for when a building owner refuses to re-wire with something that can be serviced by metro-Ethernet. Ethernet is, of course, ~90-100 meters (not 500) but most MDUs need to have utility closets/areas within 100 meters for other reasons anyway; so you often there can either be copper or fiber back-haul links past that first switch. The major pain point is probably neighborhoods where the exp…

There are long range versions of Ethernet

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#64

Post by andymcsherry »

cperciva wrote: post #42
olympus wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is likely that someone did realize this, did the math on the labor costs to pull all the wire up across the country, and realized it wouldn't actually be profitable. There are guys that track individual ships across the ocean to decide what/when to trade, I doubt everyone missed the value of ATT's physical assets.

I don't think that Tanenbaum was being completely serious. The point is to put the value of that copper (and the cost of replacing it in the event that it is damaged) into perspective.

He certainly wasn't. If you read his political blog (http://electoral-vote.com/), you'll find this sort of sarcasm is his hallmark.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#65

Post by abalashov »

Zenst wrote: post #61

Certainly an opportunity for VOIP services and a router with a PSTN connection so you can plug in your existing phone will work out as a perfect solution. Such routers been around for ages, some even have DECT built in. One avenue that could be taken by the companies to mitigate any loss of voice service. Customer would be just changing the point they plug the phone in, socket wise and that would be that. I had a Dra…

TA96 rules mandate number portability. But you can't port a number outside of a rate centre. To put it simply, to port a number to a new carrier, the carrier has to be able to pick the call up somewhere, by way of the appropriate connections to the incumbent's "tandem" offices (think of it as a kind of hub for the spokes that are Bell central offices).

The underlying PSTN origination supply chain for the VoIP industry consists of a small oligopoly of CLECs at this point (e.g. Level3, Bandwidth.com, Verizon Business, Onvoy and all the companies they bought, etc.) and they don't necessarily have the interconnections and footprint in these same markets — most especially not the "Tier 3" plus rural markets.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#66

Post by jfoutz »

microcolonel wrote: post #37
droopybuns wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you hear telco execs talk about “the copper plant,” they are referring to all of the underground copper. This wire is laid out in sheathed bundles of excess pairs that can be used to replace a pair that has a short. When they eventually run out of pairs, the only solution is to dig trenches and replace bundles. It is filthy, expensive work for a feature that no longer generates the revenue that funded the deploy…

> If we hadn’t wasted the trillions of dollars on the last 16 years of war War is actually one of the cheaper parts of the budget.

The expensive parts, have specific taxes to pay for specific programs.

War on the other hand, it's just kinda, let's spend a bunch of money and worry about it later. That makes a lot of sense when you're averting genocide or actively under attack. it makes less sense when you're already funding a powerful influential state department that can impose sanctions with strong international support.

You can afford a whole lot of diplomacy for a few billion dollars, but that won't really buy you a lot of war. Also, not so many people die. Which i think is a bonus.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#67

Post by ztjio »

thecybernerd wrote: post #8

This is exactly what Verizon did to parts of the NE after Hurricane Sandy. They provided CDMA/LTE based pots services in areas in which they didn't feel it was economical to rewire with fiber.

The point is that they won't have to do that. They won't have to do anything. They will be allowed to simply leave such people without an alternative if they want.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#68

Post by sitkack »

maltalex wrote: post #16
bm1362 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not destroying the infrastructure, it’s abandoning it. The article states that prior to this ruling they’re required to maintain or replace with comparable functionality for existing copper customers. This ruling let’s them abandon them altogether from what I gathered.

Ok, but there are still paying customers on the end of that infrastructure. Are they not profitable enough?

Things that are utilities need to widely available. Power, electricty, water, etc. We grant monopoly status to corporations in exchange for fixed profits and guaranteed service even where not profitable. If we didn't do this, they would have block by block pricing and wouldn't serve areas for arbitrary "reasons"

Yet they still continue to shake the people down. I don't think corporations should run anything last mile. The temptation is just too great.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#69

Post by rayiner »

cavisne wrote: post #52

Does ATT have an alternate asset? As far as I know they dont run a cable network or a significant fttp network so I dont see why they would remove any broadband customers. Dial up and landline only customers I can see being moved to LTE. I dont see anything about the USF going away so I dont see why anyone would be left behind, USF's are normally highly profitable for the telco. For the edge cases that cant receive a…

> USF's are normally highly profitable for the telco.

USF is paid for by a tax on telecom service which, in effect, redistributes money from telcos with more urban/suburban customers to telcos with more rural customers (and imposes a deadweight loss on the industry as a whole from the tax). AT&T probably falls into the bucket of telcos that lose rather than profit from the USF scheme.

Re: The beginning of the end for copper wire

#70

Post by philjohn »

Godel_unicode wrote: post #12
knolan wrote: post #9

Copper can still play a role. https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/G.fast

From Wikipedia: "...for local loops shorter than 500 m"

g.fast is good for more densely populated areas, which is why it'll work quite well in the UK if BT ever get around to rolling it out properly - 90% of consumer premises are within 500m of a street side cabinet.
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