Hacker News Board Hacker News, browsed like a classic message board
Live data from Hacker News

Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

reuters.com

Post reply on HN
Print view View original

291–300 of 339 posts

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#291

Post by peterwwillis »

nindalf wrote: post #128

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether A…

You cannot gleam anything from this blurb. It doesn't talk about Germany's trade surplus, higher than average minimum wage, or strong unions that typically compromise with companies rather than threaten the company's long term stability. It also doesn't mention Italy's strikes being so common you check the morning news to see what won't be working that day.

The fact that the info comes from Amazon is biased at best, but without an analysis of both situations this is just a 'current events' blurb.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#292

Post by chimeracoder »

TulliusCicero wrote: post #265
35bge57dtjku wrote: post #223

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> but don't have to pay any fees That's not true.

People who don't join a union still have to pay union fees?

> People who don't join a union still have to pay union fees?

Actually... yes. Maintenance-of-dues and other contract stipulations can mean that all members of a bargaining unit are required to pay dues fees, even if they aren't members of the union or covered by the union contracts. So, they're required to pay fees to the union so that the union can represent other people, not them, oftentimes against their own interests.

It's particularly common for teachers and other skilled, low-paying jobs.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#293

Post by badlogic »

literallycancer wrote: post #264
Thlom wrote: post #261

How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood? In Europe workers are hired by the company and are free to enter whichever union he or she wants or not to join a union. Usually all workers at a workplace join the same union and form a local branch/club at the workplace. Unions are national…

>How do unions work in the US? From what I hear it sounds like members are "employed" by the union and the company is forced to hire workers from the union? Have I misunderstood? This is the case in the EU as well. If your company is of a certain size, you are required to pay a person that works for the union rather than for the company.

Citation needed. At least in Austria, a country with a 90%+ unionization, that is absolutely not the case.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#294

Post by rdiddly »

jasode wrote: post #148
tw04 wrote: post #98

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This pattern isn't as simple to dismiss as "anti-union FUD", especially since it's seen among people who are already union members in closed shops. You act as though anti-union FUD can't affect members. That's kind of ridiculous... if it didn't affect MEMBERS as well as non-members, what would be the point? If I'm a less-educated union member who has no concept of what life was like before unions, and constantly hea…

>For the average joe who just wants to go to work and get a paycheck, the bigger picture is often lost. Isn't it possible the armchair talking heads like us are the ones missing the bigger picture and the actual workers are the ones who actually get it? Let's consider the Boeing workers in South Carolina: - 2009-09 74% of employees vote against the union and decertify it[1] - 2009-10 Boeing breaks ground on new South…

What you're talking about is a result of the union not being unified (i.e. across states). It's the result of less worker unity, not more.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#295

Post by bonzini »

peterwwillis wrote: post #291
nindalf wrote: post #128

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. Not a criticism of either Amazon or the unions but I would really appreciate it if news sources would verify these claims one way or another. Obviously as a wire service, that may not be Reuters' job but whether A…

You cannot gleam anything from this blurb. It doesn't talk about Germany's trade surplus, higher than average minimum wage, or strong unions that typically compromise with companies rather than threaten the company's long term stability. It also doesn't mention Italy's strikes being so common you check the morning news to see what won't be working that day. The fact that the info comes from Amazon is biased at best,…

Strikes are very common in public transport in Italy. Everything else, not that much.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#296

Post by bonzini »

toyg wrote: post #132
Kiro wrote: post #111

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.

This is what the company says, not necessarily the whole truth (how many employees got these benefits?). Besides, things like "private medical insurance" are meaningless in Northern Italy, where the regional health service is either free or very low-cost and delivers excellent levels of care. I'm surprised they are even mentioned as important benefits; either the person speaking to reporters is not Italian, or they a…

If they are employed under the commerce contact, they have two guaranteed bonuses.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#297

Post by megy »

sliverstorm wrote: post #195
tryingagainbro wrote: post #154

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Exec salaries, golden parachutes, mistakes in management, dividends etc over the decades played no role right?

As unfair & objectionable as those things might be, quite a lot of companies seem to manage to pay their execs excessive salaries, provide golden parachutes, and pay out dividends without requiring government bailout.

And quite a lot of companies manage to pay out pensions and work with unions too.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#298

Post by johnvonneumann »

stale2002 wrote: post #239
johnvonneumann wrote: post #225

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because it doesn't work like that, you can't deny the benefits, the way they work (in Aus, it will be similar elsewhere) is with EBA (Enterprise Bargaining Agreements). Basically, the union will go into talks with companies, agree on conditions and then they will be spread out as an effective handshake rule across the industry. The union act as mitigators between businesses and workers, which pretty much changes the…

> So you can't really opt out. Unless of course you go and work for companies who don't sign the EBA Actually there is a better way. The better way is to do everything in your power as a worker and citizen to prevent the union from being formed in the first place. Either at YOUR company, or at any others, even if you don't work there. As well as by pushing for any law that reduces the power of unions. A union can't f…

And what incentive do collective groups have to do that? I struggle to understand why people would act against their own self-interests to undermine their own rights and pay. Did you know that global wage growth is being outstripped by inflation?

What good does crippling unions do? You think it's useful for large portions of the community to be on stifled wages and bad working conditions?

Unions are less powerful in the US because the US has a broken system where those with money have more votes than those with less? There is a financial interest in having the "mere peons" on less cash because it results in a better balance sheet situation for executives and share holders, resulting in better EOY dividends and better bonuses.

I support Unions because of people like you, because for some fucking unknown reason, people like you believe that some are entitled to less because they are employed in xxxx profession or don't have xxxx degree.

The fundamental problem is that unions are REQUIRED, if there was a bigger sense of social responsibilty, people would get paid decent living wages and wouldn't be worked in horrendously dangerous conditions dealing with power brokers whose only interest is their own portfolio value.

Please, get away from the trickle down economics bullshit and come back to the real world. How much evidence of corporate malfeasance do you have to see on a daily basis before realising that protecting the rights of the 99% is not only a good economic decision, but also a humane one.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#299

Post by ars »

nkkollaw wrote: post #219
plandis wrote: post #207

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wait, what? You can’t fire people who refuse to work? That sounds absolutely crazy.

It's not crazy in a civilized country. They're not slaves, you know..?

But the people paying them are slaves, and can be forced to continue paying them for nothing?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#300

Post by coredog64 »

Barrin92 wrote: post #263
sliverstorm wrote: post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

As unfair & objectionable as those things might be, quite a lot of companies seem to manage to pay their execs excessive salaries, provide golden parachutes, and pay out dividends without requiring government bailout.

All car manufacturers except Ford were bailed out, and Ford is about as unionised as anybody else. Not to mention the bank bailouts, and I don't remember banks being known for their exceptionally strong labour organisation. The bailouts were the reaction to an exogenous shock, the recession, and have not much to say about labour politics. In fact unions have the ability to collectively negotiate wage stalls , like in…

Ford didn't take a bailout for two reasons. First, they had borrowed a bunch of money before the GFC and so had capital that GM and Chrysler didn't.

Second (and more important), taking a bailout would have meant no dividends. Many Ford family members rely on dividends as primary income.

Post reply on HN