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I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

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Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#231

Post by BenchRouter »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #181
BenchRouter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

> Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? An often stressful profession, requires extensive post-graduate education (which most developers don't have), has strict licensing requirements to keep out people. Doesn't pay as well as software development, relative to the requirements and responsibility. > Or medicine? A highly stressful profession (your patients could die), requires extensive post-graduate…

I'm not sure I buy that attorneys are significantly better educated, especially in some more traditional firms (e.g. MS) where a masters isn't unusual. It's only an additional year of schooling on top of that.

Fair point on the licensing though. Maybe that's what most commonly separates blue collar from white collar these days - licensing? Trying to think of other professions I would compare software development to, and they all require licenses (traditional engineering, for example).

> Maybe I'm just getting jaded but I'd say yes. Outside the big 4 and a few other niches, most developers seem to just be gluing together whichever pre-made web frameworks and libraries happen to currently be in vogue. Patience with the endless yak-shaving needed to get anything to work rather than any particular technical brilliance is the primary requirement for career longevity.

Yeah, I'm starting to get that impression as well.

To be fair, though, I think many US physicians would tell you a similar thing (being brilliant isn't nearly as important as how adept you are at navigating the healthcare/insurance system).

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#232

Post by alistproducer2 »

kowdermeister wrote: post #211
alistproducer2 wrote: post #172

I'm leaving IT after 5 years to start a real estate company and work with my hands. I feel exactly the same way as the OP. Sitting on my butt for 6 years is wrecking my health and I hate the work. I've saved lots of money and as long as I don't screw up my investments, I'll never have to work for anyone else again. I love open source software and will continue to build and contribute to projects. I hate enterprise so…

Good for you. That's really exceptional that only after 5 years you can do that. I'm not even close after 10 :/

To be fair, I'm in a 2 income household and my spouse bought into the "save everything now, retire early" plan.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#233

Post by m_fayer »

kinkrtyavimoodh wrote: post #151
aphextron wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This one hits hard. As a front end developer, when people ask what I do, I say "I make buttons". Red buttons, blue buttons, big buttons, small buttons. Any kind of button you can imagine. I spend my life making buttons light up on a colorful screen. And then people click on those buttons and I get paid an obscene amount of money for it. I'm not sure if this is how people are supposed to live. It's driving me mad. But…

"I spend my life making buttons light up on a colorful screen." Anything can be cynically reduced to some absurd description. You do your (very sensible) argument a disservice by doing that.

I make crud apps, but shiny.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#234

Post by fbonetti »

alistproducer2 wrote: post #176
fbonetti wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you for sharing this. While it's good to be appreciative of our relative privilege in this market compared to other labor markets, it's nice to hear people admit that being a software engineer does nothing for your social or emotional growth. Sitting in front of screen day after day with little social interaction or meaningful collaboration takes a toll on you, no matter how much you're getting paid. My exit pl…

See my comment (in my history). I'm literally doing the same thing. Piece of advice: Max out your 401k every year and use a ROBS (rollover for business startup) to fund it tax free. It's complicated but totally worth it.

I've heard that taking that approach comes with a lot of a rules on how you can use your money. For example, if you make a profit from rent, you can't take it out in cash (it has to be reinvested into the business). Also, if you want to make an improvement to your property, you are required to hire someone to do the work instead of doing it yourself.

I could be totally wrong about this because I haven't done a lot of research. My plan is to use regular cash for down payments on traditional mortgages. I haven't decided what to do with my 401k yet, but I definitely want to use it even if that means paying the fee to pull it out in cash.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#235

Post by alistproducer2 »

fbonetti wrote: post #234
alistproducer2 wrote: post #176

Earlier quoted context omitted.

See my comment (in my history). I'm literally doing the same thing. Piece of advice: Max out your 401k every year and use a ROBS (rollover for business startup) to fund it tax free. It's complicated but totally worth it.

I've heard that taking that approach comes with a lot of a rules on how you can use your money. For example, if you make a profit from rent, you can't take it out in cash (it has to be reinvested into the business). Also, if you want to make an improvement to your property, you are required to hire someone to do the work instead of doing it yourself. I could be totally wrong about this because I haven't done a lot of…

Before you commit to paying the early withdrawl taxes and penalties, do what i did; hire a lawyer that deals with erisa law. The legal advice I've been given doesn't match up with what you're saying, but I will certainly ask about it in my next conference.

edit: here is some info, but still make sure you get a lawyer. Also regarding taking the money out, it's true that you can't just spend it. This is due to the necessary structure of the business - a c corp. You can, however, take a salary once your business becomes profitable.

https://www.biggerpockets.com/blogs/3441/52232-starting-a-re...

https://www.mysolo401k.net/401k-business-financing/

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#236

Post by cholantesh »

ThrowawayR2 wrote: post #181
BenchRouter wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Most people have way more taxing jobs than IT. I've been in construction for 3 years, and that work is no joke. There's some discussion of this above, but I think it's interesting that the alternative to software development is seemingly always construction, or delivering food, or being a waiter. Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? Or medicine? Or has software development truly reached blue-coll…

> Wouldn't the more apt comparison be something like law? An often stressful profession, requires extensive post-graduate education (which most developers don't have), has strict licensing requirements to keep out people. Doesn't pay as well as software development, relative to the requirements and responsibility. > Or medicine? A highly stressful profession (your patients could die), requires extensive post-graduate…

> Outside the big 4 and a few other niches, most developers seem to just be gluing together whichever pre-made web frameworks and libraries happen to currently be in vogue

Interestingly, in the last conversation I had with a friend who is a lawyer, he made a similar argument about how his career has shaped up. Most days he's just repurposing portions of existing documents into a single new one.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#237

Post by cup-of-tea »

sctb wrote: post #125
cup-of-tea wrote: post #26

> I just found out some guy who does the same work as me is getting paid 20% more. Yeah and there's probably some guy getting paid 20% less than you for the same job and some woman getting paid 100% for an easier job. Maybe it's best to quit software if you don't even understand basic statistics. This is a great profession which pays very well and has very flexible hours. Go shovel shit if you want. The author just d…

This is not a civil or substantive comment. Could you please take a look at the guidelines and then follow them? We're trying to do better than drive-by personal attacks and dismissals here. https://news.ycombinator.com/newsguidelines.html

Please explain, in plain English, how this breaks the guidelines or how this is "not a civil or substantive comment".

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#238

Post by ots »

I am not a software developer. As a sysadmin, I'm paid less than a software developer with similar experience. I started doing support after college, even though I have a CS degree. At the beginning I wasn't sure if I want to this and was a bit envy to software developers. It took me several years to realize that I actually prefer to what I'm doing than full-time coding. I've been at jobs that I can travel to different parts of the work to support our infrastructure or build a company's server infrastructure from scratch and having significant impact on the organization.

There is always a different path one can take, especially at such young age as the OP.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#239

Post by cholantesh »

Clubber wrote: post #115
johnwheeler wrote: post #41

I’ve held jobs where I was able to work on only greenfield projects with minimal oversight and the ability to put in 3-4 hour days if I wanted to, and I’ve held jobs like the blog post author’s, working on hellish enterprise CMSes. I can say the former is incomparably better and makes you grow into a stronger, more fulfilled engineer. I think as long as I could support myself financially and keep living somewhat comf…

I agree. I always work for startup type companies and they end up getting acquired and the process changes from what worked great (enough to get acquired) to shackles and mud. I hold on as long as I can and move to another startup type company. Big companies suck the soul and passion out of you. You really have to be careful. Any passionate developer that wants to get out of development was most likely crushed by lar…

Looking at this paragraph:

>Because it’s not really “passion” they are looking for, but people who are merely willing to endure long hours. They aren’t really looking for the person who spends a few hours on the weekend on an open-source project, they are looking for the person who comes home from work and spends all night on it.

I feel that the author is describing a lot of startups or mid-sized companies. Personally, I think the size of the organization is not the best indicator of how rewarding your work there will be.

Re: I don’t want to be a software developer anymore

#240

Post by LouisSayers »

empath75 wrote: post #219
jvvw wrote: post #148

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Realistically though, most of us working as developers wouldn't be working in a restaurant though instead. With a degree in maths, I would have probably ended up in something like statistics, science, finance or teaching. Not saying that those are better areas to be in (and one of the reasons that I work half-time is that I don't want to be more sedentary than I am) but it feels like a weird comparison for me.

I actually was working as a grocery clerk, then in a mail room. There are a lot of developers without degrees in the world. I was a nobody from nowhere and my vocational opportunities were pretty limited if I didn’t have the good luck of having a Commodore 64 when I was a kid.

We had a Commodore 64 when I was a kid. It was fun! I used to play games on it. That was the only thing I did on it - I guess I just didn’t know that you could do more than play games on it. Maybe I was a bit too young at the time, or the fact that it was gifted to my family who knew next to nothing about computers.

So I still ended up working at supermarkets and doing manual labour jobs until I was at university and started doing some tutoring.

I think it’s good to have had the experiences of doing some manual labour type jobs - it gives people context and perspective.

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