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Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

reuters.com

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Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#191

Post by sliverstorm »

09094920394314 wrote: post #69
colejohnson66 wrote: post #61

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It’s not FUD when you literally have unions such as ones for police who fight tooth and nail to keep bad employees working there. Sure, that’s what a union is supposed to do, but there needs to be a line, and no one wants to define it.

It's still FUD, it just means some unions are corrupt. Or maybe more whataboutism. Imagine if we all (and not just the left) talked about companies the same way we talk about unions, using the countless examples of managerial abuse, wage theft etc. as examples. Would you say that would be reasonable? And preemptively, this is not a "both sides" question either. Everything is grey, but there are shades of grey. And wh…

Maybe 'not all unions' but several very large unions are responsible for some massive, fundamental problems we have today. E.g., cities are going bankrupt in large part tied to unions. I don't think it counts as FUD; even if 'not all unions', I think we have identified issues with the union structure that no one knows yet how to resolve, that will come back if unions come back.

It's like trying to argue 'not all cops'. Sure, but we still decided body cams were a good idea.

I believe we need to swing back towards unionizing. But I think there are real & legitimate concerns that haven't been fixed & aren't FUD.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#192

Post by lfischer »

chimeracoder wrote: post #63
brndnmtthws wrote: post #23

Happy to hear workers are standing up for themselves. The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages over the past 50 years (check out Thomas Piketty's work if you're curious about this).

> The anti-union FUD campaign in the US has contributed significantly to the erosion of middle class wages It's way more complicated than that, and it can't simply be dismissed as a "FUD campaign". Union members are actually disproportionately likely to support things like right-to-work laws, which unions dislike because it (more or less) means workers aren't obligated to be members if they choose not to. Similarly,…

Do multiple competing unions happen in the same workplace happen in the US ? As far as I have seen, that seems fairly common in the countries where I have lived (Europe only). And are there some cross-category unions (where workers in different areas and jobs are members of the same overarching organization, which sometimes organizes nation-wide demonstrations or even strikes)?

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#194

Post by Grobak »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #125
Kiro wrote: post #111

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.

I don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

The are complaining about forced overtime, night work and working sunday, all time that is paid at minimum salary. They say they have been contracting with the company for over a year and while they are apparently open, in practize they keep taking time and implementing no changes

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#195

Post by sliverstorm »

tryingagainbro wrote: post #154
chrisco255 wrote: post #131

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Unions and expensive pensions contributed significantly to the bankruptcy of General Motors. If not for a government bail out we'd barely have an American auto industry.

Exec salaries, golden parachutes, mistakes in management, dividends etc over the decades played no role right?

As unfair & objectionable as those things might be, quite a lot of companies seem to manage to pay their execs excessive salaries, provide golden parachutes, and pay out dividends without requiring government bailout.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#196

Post by simias »

freeone3000 wrote: post #183
simias wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because American retailers fare so much better these days and it's clearly powering the US economy[0]. Because preventing small retailer from being starved by big chains is what's sinking the french economy. Because clearly I can tell from your comment that you spent a lot of time investigating these regulations and their impact on the french economy. I'm so thankful that you live in the US. [0] https://www.nytimes.c…

Small stores and local retail are dying out due to the cheapness, convenience, and selection of online retail. As a consumer, the online stores are more convenient and save me money. If a local store can't offer anything preferable to some faceless multinational, what is it really doing other than giving some of my money to someone who doesn't add any value?

It was just my knee-jerk reaction to the insightless french-bashing comment. I don't have a strong opinion on the matter. Mall culture was never as prevalent in Europe as it is in the US so it's hard to compare directly.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#197

Post by sliverstorm »

djsumdog wrote: post #53
oblio wrote: post #4

Now that's something I haven't heard about in the US for a few decades: strikes. I'm partly kidding, but have there been any major strikes in the US lately?

Strikers in US media are often belittled. Think back to the Occupy Movement. The banks were bailed out, none of those people who caused so much misery were ever put in jail, and the media belittled Occupy as being directionless and pointless. The protest was huge, stretching across cities and countries, but there was never any accountability for the banksters. It shows again as the Equifax execs were cleared of insid…

the media belittled Occupy as being directionless

Was it not? I called it so from the start; they had a list of something like 29 totally unrelated demands, and never managed to narrow it down.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#198

Post by mrighele »

SiempreViernes wrote: post #125
Kiro wrote: post #111

> The company said salaries paid to its workers were among the highest in the logistic sector and that it also provided some benefits such as private medical insurance or money to pay for training programs. I don't understand how you can strike if this is true.

I don't either understand why they strike, but that's because they released their statement as a scanned pdf without ocr and I can't read italian: http://www.cgilpiacenza.it/imgportfolio/14/img_6/img_767969....

I will try a summary translation for you (I can't claim to be perfect, it is more union-speak than Italian :-) ):

The issues that the unions are complaining about are:

* Need for increased wages: the current wages follow the minimum required by the CCNL (national collective contract)[], but working condition are worse than usual: pauseless working shifts, higher productivity required, night shifts spread all year long with 6 days working week in during high peak perios (e.g. Christmas). No productivity bonuses for event such as Christmas or Black Friday. * No ability to balance work life and personal life.

The unions say that they are going on strike since for more that one years they have tried to address those issues with Amazon but the latter always delayed any kind of action.

[*] CCNL is a contract that is agreed between unions and employers at the national level to guarantee a baseline for all employees in a given sector.

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#199

Post by eru »

Joeboy wrote: post #106
chimeracoder wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> £55k isn't that well paid for people who have to live in or near London It's more than the typical software engineer can expect to make in London. Source: Glassdoor, Indeed, talking to colleagues who live in London, and my own memories from my last job search.

Personally I would say a tube driver is just as entitled to a decent life as an average software developer but I realize this may be the wrong audience for that argument.

Depends on what you mean by 'entitled'?

In an ideal world we'd all have ponies, but in reality there's still scarcity so we have to ration resources one way or another. (And then whatever rationing system we use interacts with human incentives and lots of other systems.)

Re: Workers at Amazon's main Italian hub, German warehouses strike on Black Friday

#200

Post by sliverstorm »

KozmoNau7 wrote: post #26
erikb wrote: post #14

Is there a Black Friday in Italy? I thought this would be a purely American thing.

A bunch of companies are desperately trying to make it a thing here in Denmark, as well. By the looks of it, they jack up their prices slightly about a month in advance, and then offer crappy 20-30% "rebates" on Black Friday. It is simply not worth it.

Fight it. There's all kinds of collateral damage.

https://www.strongtowns.org/blackfridayparking/

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