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“I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

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Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#201

Post by shimfish »

shimfish wrote: post #163

Just to add my personal data point of experience... 6 years ago, I took a break from doing webdev freelancing and spent around 3 months developing a kids app. At that point the money ran out so I released the app even though it wasn't entirely finished and quickly went back to doing web freelancing in order to be able to feed my family. The app sold in small amounts but it was getting great feedback from the people w…

P.S. https://itunes.apple.com/app/my-playhome/id439628153 in case anybody was wondering.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#202

Post by gspetr »

jorams wrote: post #165
AdrianB1 wrote: post #106

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The average salary for a developer in the top cities in Romania is around EUR 1,000 or $1,100 after taxes (that is about $2,500 in US before tax - yes, taxes are that high, actually a bit higher). A very good developer gets double. $2000 in savings are 4 months of living on the edge, not regular living. Getting a full time job as a developer in Romania is extremely easy if you have any decent skills, there is a short…

> The average salary for a developer in the top cities in Romania is around EUR 1,000 or $1,100 after taxes (that is about $2,500 in US before tax - yes, taxes are that high, actually a bit higher). Can you explain that ratio? €1000--€1100 is roughly equal to $1200--$1300, and some quick searches tell me income tax in Romania is a flat 16%. That ends up very far from $2500.

I know nothing about Romanian tax system, but in Russia the tax is flat 13%.

What that doesn't tell you is that employer also pays 30% on top of your gross salary in "social insurance", so maybe Romania has something like that in place.

And you don't even do your own taxes if you're employed in the vast majority of jobs. You do them if you're an entrepreneur or contractor.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#203

Post by tom_mellior »

This is very much of a tangent, but I was really surprised by this part: "At the beginning of the year I opted to buy an apartment for myself. [...] The developer behind the apartment did not do his job properly and I found myself having to pay for many things out of pocket (like getting electricity)."

Where I live, nobody owning an apartment would ever expect not to have to get an individual contract with an electricity provider and to pay for electricity based on individual consumption. There are some rental contracts that include a flat fee for electricity consumption, but I don't understand how an owner would expect not to pay.

Maybe the author expected electricity to be covered by other charges? But that would still be a misunderstanding on his part and not mean that the "developer behind the apartment did not do his job properly".

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#204

Post by teniutza »

discordianfish wrote: post #130
virgilp wrote: post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From the name, I'm guessing he's Romanian; it's not illegal here to have a contract that states "everything you create, even in the spare time, is the company's property, unless you get written manager approval first". I have exactly such a contract. And yes I know it would be illegal in the US. (I'm not exactly sure how enforceable such a clause would really be, but that's another story, and I really understand him…

This similar in in Germany: It's not "everything is company property" but you need to ask permission to do "work" outside your employement, need to disclose if you create/"invent" something and allow the company to aquire your invention. Frankly, no idea how/if that will be enforced but something along these lines were in most contracted I had and it always made me feel uncomfortable.

I did some research about "work outside your employment" in Germany and found that the main thing is about the amount of hours one can (or is allowed) to work. The idea here was that working more than the "normal" 8 hours a day, would have a negative effect on the actual job, i.e. you're too tired to do your job properly if you work an additional 4 hours at home. In plain English, if you work additional hours daily on a side project, you'll be too tired the next day at work, hurting your productiveness (and upsetting your employer...). I did not find anything relating to weekends and/or to software created in one's spare time.

Are you aware of any specific laws concerning this whole thing?

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#205

Post by roel_v »

olegkikin wrote: post #104
davedx wrote: post #69

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think us IT'ers feel somewhat buffered in life just by the fact that it's quite possible to get job offers with $600k salaries...

It's not "a" job though, it was a partner position.

Which requires a buy-in, too, at least at the big 4 consulting firms. I've never heard of someone being brought in as a partner without having been partner somewhere else, or bringing over a whole group. (it's not because I haven't heard of it, that it doesn't exist, of course). I call bullshit.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#206

Post by Mahn »

Nokinside wrote: post #191

If you are poor, getting into business is always hard. Why so many famous actors and musicians come from wealthy families? Because they can afford to travel from auditioning to auditioning and promote themselves non-stop. Why do so many prestigious companies hire young only from wealthy families? Because they have non paid internships. Poor can't afford to get in. When you can't afford to lose, risk taking requires r…

> If you are poor, getting into business is always hard.

On the other hand, there's internet, and self-publishing creative work has never been easier. Business is hard, getting noticed is harder, but all things considered it's never been so accessible.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#207

Post by jaymzcampbell »

tom_mellior wrote: post #203

This is very much of a tangent, but I was really surprised by this part: "At the beginning of the year I opted to buy an apartment for myself. [...] The developer behind the apartment did not do his job properly and I found myself having to pay for many things out of pocket (like getting electricity)." Where I live, nobody owning an apartment would ever expect not to have to get an individual contract with an electri…

I read that as the apartment was a new build of some sort and had not yet been connected to the main supply. So he was then left with that expense as the owner.

I was surprised he paid for such an apartment, it sounds like he didn't get any sort of survey done before handing over funds/agreeing what would actually be completed before moving in. Combined with then quitting a job with so little savings I think this year will be a stressful but worthwhile lesson in planning and being more long term in thinking.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#208

Post by jaymzcampbell »

princeb wrote: post #168
vlehto wrote: post #153

The target market is tricky. I'm in my early thirties and I feel too young to get any nostalgia from this stuff. Also I've noticed that as people age, they get less exited about wasting their time on games and more willing to spend money for something useful. So your target market is actually getting trickier as time passes. But how about this: There are probably around 50 000 people in Romania starting a business ev…

>If you catch 1% of those people, https://successfulsoftware.net/2013/03/11/the-1-percent-fall...

I hadn't seen that before but that is a great post and makes an excellent point.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#209

Post by meheleventyone »

aedron wrote: post #149
jblow wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I recommend being careful from whom you take advice.

I'm sure everyone here would be really grateful if you could expand on this a little.

Not jblow but it's rather obvious that anecdotal evidence isn't a sound basis for the sort of general advice given.

That some people fail to make a big splash isn't evidence that a big splash is a tactic that will fail. Particularly if you take a broader view as this has been a successful part of the business model of games for a long time. Whether or not it's right for a specific game and the longer term business of the developer is a much more nuanced question.

Re: “I thought I could ship at least 700 units to stay in business”

#210

Post by ska »

flexie wrote: post #72
ajnin wrote: post #28

Quitting your job with only 4 month worth of savings, with a new mortgage, to enter an industry known for its oversaturation, extreme competition, and high luck element for indies ? That's insane. Maybe I'm just risk-adverse. That said, I think he actually succeeded, despite appearances. Managing to release a working game in 3 month, that actually got sales, is a feat in itself. The game will keep trickling sales, if…

It's not that I disagree, especially with the opinion that the gaming industry is over-saturated and that a lot depends on luck in that industry. But I'd say that 4 months worth of savings is in the better end when starting a new business. Most people who do startups or who otherwise become entrepreneurs have much less than that. And I think having too much of a cushion can lull you into a false sense of "doing somet…

   But if having 6 or 12 months worth of savings is a requirement, then you can rule out just about everyone except rich kids and upper middle class teenagers.
Here you have hit the nail on the head - of why most successful founders come from at least a bit of money. Not all, of course. But is sure helps.

The point isn’t really how many months of savings you have, it’s what sort of safety net yo have in practice. Does anyone have your back if you can’t make rent payments?

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