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Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

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Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#221

Post by arca_vorago »

paul7986 wrote: post #186
caburlingame wrote: post #6

Is anyone actually against net neutrality? I don't think I've ever seen a con argument.

What these comments are against net neutrality and are appearing on Hacker News? We are innovators that without neutrality us little guys/girls will suffer. Are all these comments fake/propaganda? I wouldn’t be surprised!

Cue discussion of sockpuppetry as a service (not joking, this is a real issue), given the FCC website comment drama, I wouldn't be surprised if the ISPs and the FCC have hired a "persona management" company to forum slide.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#222

Post by leadingthenet »

bko wrote: post #192
thomastjeffery wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't a sound argument against net neutrality. Many do argue that the FCC shouldn't have the authority to regulate the internet, and often argue that idea to subtly change the subject. If someone argues to abolish something, they should either argue in favor of a replacement, or argue that that thing should not exist at all. Unfortunately, I haven't heard even a flawed version of either argument. Another…

There are arguments against net neutrality. Check out the NoNetNeutrality subreddit if you're curious [0]. The most convincing argument IMO is that it hurts people's internet access by sniffling innovation. It happened in India when Facebook tried to provide free "basic internet" access to poor rural Indians [1]. It was blocked on the ground of net neutrality since although it would provide access to very useful site…

No, I don’t agree. It’s great that it failed.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#223

Post by pjc50 »

darklajid wrote: post #122
caburlingame wrote: post #6

Is anyone actually against net neutrality? I don't think I've ever seen a con argument.

Actually I've just stumbled across a very(!) active HN poster that seems to be against it on a popular micro blogging platform.. The common counter argument seems to be that "Regulation is bad for the open market" and that "Better options would come up if an ISP starts doing weird shit, if the market demands it". It's interesting to me that the very same people seem to be pro Freedom of Press/Freedom of Speech (as a…

> It's interesting to me that the very same people seem to be pro Freedom of Press/Freedom of Speech (as a German, the US Freedom of Speech is something I'm not used to, something that doesn't align with my culture/upbringing), but feel different about this subject because it involves a "market"?

That's Libertarianism. Everything done by government is bad, everything done by businesses is good. Looking at the actual effects is verboten.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#224

Post by v4tab »

amelius wrote: post #220

Apparently, it's quite difficult to maintain net neutrality, yet its advantages to the average citizen seem enormous. Therefore, shouldn't we fix something else instead? Like the way these laws are established?

Exactly. It is clear from this who lawmakers pay attention to and it is not the people.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#225

Post by pjc50 »

KaoruAoiShiho wrote: post #14
caburlingame wrote: post #6

Is anyone actually against net neutrality? I don't think I've ever seen a con argument.

I'm against net neutrality. It's essentially a wealth transfer from the infrastructure industry to the ad industry. It's pretty dumb imo.

The "infrastructure industry" are rentiers in the classical sense: they are rewarded for holding and maintaining a capital asset which can't be easily replicated.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#226

Post by mediocrejoker »

ivarious wrote: post #156

https://i.imgur.com/DhL4vKq.jpg Indonesia doesn't have net neutrality laws. That's the screenshot of Indosat (Internet Provider)'s app where you can buy data plan from. But as you can see, they sell data plans ala carte, per application in this case. If your favorite app is not there, you're shit out of luck and have to use the more expensive universal data plan. Not only that, last year, the biggest home internet pr…

my first question would be how the prices of the unlimited plan compares to the regular plans of other ISPs.

In other words, are these ‘walled garden’ plans aimed towards people who would otherwise buy a regular data plan or are they aimed at people for whom the choice is a walled plan or no plan.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#227

Post by mediocrejoker »

reustle wrote: post #179
ivarious wrote: post #156

https://i.imgur.com/DhL4vKq.jpg Indonesia doesn't have net neutrality laws. That's the screenshot of Indosat (Internet Provider)'s app where you can buy data plan from. But as you can see, they sell data plans ala carte, per application in this case. If your favorite app is not there, you're shit out of luck and have to use the more expensive universal data plan. Not only that, last year, the biggest home internet pr…

Just for the curious, this isn't how every ISP in Indonesia is. Friends and I have had your standard sim cards which allows you to access any site freely.

So maybe these plans are serving a different market segment. Is there any reason to believe an ISP would get rid of all their regular offerings in favour of these site-specific plans?

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#228

Post by dm319 »

amelius wrote: post #220

Apparently, it's quite difficult to maintain net neutrality, yet its advantages to the average citizen seem enormous. Therefore, shouldn't we fix something else instead? Like the way these laws are established?

It's cultural.

Both the people in charge and those who put them there worship the production of money. Policies are selected based on whatever provides maximum revenue without other considerations, with the belief that a thriving economy requires this strategy.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#229

Post by goda90 »

bko wrote: post #192
thomastjeffery wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There really isn't a sound argument against net neutrality. Many do argue that the FCC shouldn't have the authority to regulate the internet, and often argue that idea to subtly change the subject. If someone argues to abolish something, they should either argue in favor of a replacement, or argue that that thing should not exist at all. Unfortunately, I haven't heard even a flawed version of either argument. Another…

There are arguments against net neutrality. Check out the NoNetNeutrality subreddit if you're curious [0]. The most convincing argument IMO is that it hurts people's internet access by sniffling innovation. It happened in India when Facebook tried to provide free "basic internet" access to poor rural Indians [1]. It was blocked on the ground of net neutrality since although it would provide access to very useful site…

The counter to free basics is why didn't Facebook just provide free full internet with heavy branding and advertising to encourage Facebook use? Did they have some Indian competitor they were scared of? I have a hard time seeing how it would be that much more expensive.

Re: Join the Battle for Net Neutrality

#230

Post by anthony_romeo »

m333t wrote: post #171
caburlingame wrote: post #6

Is anyone actually against net neutrality? I don't think I've ever seen a con argument.

It's a made up issue. "Net neutrality" doesn't mean a free internet. It means a free internet regulated by the FCC. Almost nobody is against a free internet. A lot of people such as myself are against the FCC being in charge of regulating it. Competition and the FTC's anti-trust authority have kept the internet free for decades and will continue to do so in the future. The people pushing "net neutrality" want to tran…

You are deliberately being deceptive to fool people into agreeing with you.

Net Neutrality is a mandate that ISPs cannot prioritize data from one website over another. It's a regulation to ensure that Comcast cannot effectively censor websites it doesn't like by hiding it behind a slow lane of sorts. We know that ISPs have attempted to throttle Netflix's content, which is what prompted the recent regulatory changes in 2015.

What evidence do you have that net neutrality will necessarily lead to government censorship of the Internet?

Why is net neutrality an essential component for the government to censor content?

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