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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#451

Post by gthtjtkt »

lostlogin wrote: post #250
danielvf wrote: post #9

I worked with small / medium manufacturers in the prosperous part of the Southeast. Hiring is brutal currently. Last week one company setup interviews with 20 possible new workers. One showed up for his interview, and one wandered in the next day. 18 nonshows. Another local company is seeing 50% of new hires failing their first drug test. Anecdotaly, about 20% of new hires under 30 don’t understand the concept of sho…

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

If you were familiar the severity of the opioid crisis in many working class areas you wouldn't be surprised by the testing or the results.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#452

Post by harrumph »

turc1656 wrote: post #385
harrumph wrote: post #327

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Guess what, a lot of people are underpaid. > Contrary to popular belief, being a "company man" is usually still rewarded as long as you work for an employer which has basic common sense when it comes to employee compensation and morale. It is mind-blowing that anyone could write this summary, expecting it to be generally applicable, when every study of wages shows they have stagnated since the 1970s, and at the sam…

I did mention a pay ethic and you even quoted it - "...basic common sense when it comes to employee compensation and morale." I also indicated that if the OP didn't feel they were being fairly compensated they should have a discussion about it and if the outcome is not appropriate that they should leave, presumably because there is either a mismatch of opinion regarding OP's skill set and what it is worth, or that em…

I think we should not use terms like "common sense" when describing totally uncommon practices.

Wages aren't stagnant by accident -- far from it. The constantly repeated, default decision by boardrooms to unlink compensation from productivity and thereby suppress wages is in fact the overwhelming, prevailing "common sense" of the really existing world. This goes hand in hand with the systematic expropriation by ownership of the surplus value created by workers.

This situation persists because persons with your perspective cheerlead it on, in part by moralizing on worker compensation while totally ignoring the moral calculus of ownership's claim to the surplus value created by workers. That's what you did here:

>Yet no additional effort, creativity, or skill was required on the part of the cashier [...] [therefore they deserve no share of their expanded productivity]

Fact: if additional effort, creativity and skill was a bona fide prerequisite for receiving expanded compensation linked to productivity, then dividend compensation for nonworking stockholders would never flow -- let alone grow to the astronomic, middle-class-savaging intensity it has today.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#453

Post by hotgoldminer »

bluthru wrote: post #450
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well I have something to share precisely about that. Was in 2001 prior to 9/11 in south Indiana. I applied to a factory. And another one. And another one. Nothing. No bites. I then found work at a gas station Subway across the first factory. Our primary business were the factories. 9/11 happened. Within days, the factories shut down. We at subway were like "WTF happened?" Cause we were staffed like normal for rush. T…

>I know I understood the blue collar hatred of illegals. I've been on the receiving end of that. Not that its right, mind you- but understanding others viewpoints is the start of fixing them. Of course it's right to hate people who have no respect for your country's laws and have a meaningful negative impact on your quality of life. You're trying to make it into a racial issue to excuse people who make life worse for…

Or maybe the employers should quit hiring them?

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#454

Post by bluthru »

hotgoldminer wrote: post #453
bluthru wrote: post #450

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>I know I understood the blue collar hatred of illegals. I've been on the receiving end of that. Not that its right, mind you- but understanding others viewpoints is the start of fixing them. Of course it's right to hate people who have no respect for your country's laws and have a meaningful negative impact on your quality of life. You're trying to make it into a racial issue to excuse people who make life worse for…

Or maybe the employers should quit hiring them?

It's a huge problem that requires enforcement at all levels.

People should stop abusing opioids, but we should also make sure they don't cross the border into our country.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#455

Post by turc1656 »

s73ver_ wrote: post #415
turc1656 wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm not sure how someone can just graduate and yet have meaningful experience in the field. Seems like only a very, very select few people can every really say that. Also, it's not clear if you and your father have degrees in the same field. If you do, part of it could easily be a supply/demand issue. I've heard similar stories from lawyers who enter the field and find it very difficult to get anything above 50k for…

If the employer is not paying what the "work ethic" is worth, then why should they get it?

If the employee knows that at the time the offer is made, then why would they accept it?

Because it actually is the prevailing market rate for their role and they know that. Also, let's not forget that there is always a large risk when hiring someone, especially as in the OPs case where they are recently graduated. The value can't be certain, so businesses are conservative until it can be proven to be higher. This is logical and expected.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#456

Post by brandonmenc »

skrause wrote: post #326
brandonmenc wrote: post #296

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober Have you ever seen a lathe accident, for example? You can't spot test for being high on marijuana or pills like you can for drunkenness, so you rely on the urine test to keep everyone on the floor safe from being crushed in a press by a stoned co-worker (or themselves.)

Here in Germany it's illegal to drug test your employees and yet there are less fatal injuries at work compared to the US ( https://sites.google.com/site/ryoichihoriguchi/home/occupati... ).

We have higher rates of drug use and overdose in the US compared to Germany.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#457

Post by linkregister »

s73ver_ wrote: post #408
linkregister wrote: post #354

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When you graduate, at your first tech job you'll have to sit through various mandatory training. One of those describes the employer's requirements under U.S. (or EU) law. One of those requirements is "reasonable accommodation," which is a term that means that employers face big lawsuits from the government if they don't reasonably accommodate employee disabilities. This means that if an employee has a condition that…

Yes, those things can happen. Doesn't mean they will. Remember, a large chunk of people in this country are working under at-will employment. That means that if the company doesn't want to accommodate you, they don't have to; they just let you go without saying why. The onus is now on you to prove beyond a reasonable doubt (and spending large amounts of money on legal fees to do so) that you were let go because of th…

No, the employee contacts the ADA and EEOC. Please reread my comment.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#458

Post by harrumph »

turc1656 wrote: post #431
crankylinuxuser wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Do you think that's a new thing? No, but the extreme automation and beginning of human-like skills across all domains of knowledge are a new thing. With automation of the essentials plus a bit more, we can finally start free ourselves from a lifetime of work. The wealthy already have, and choose what they wish to do. I only want that. > As if not being a productive member of society leading to poverty is this evil…

I fully believe that the asymmetry that exists is due nearly entirely to government. It's hard to have big business without big government. And many of the regulations and barriers to entry are created at the hands of government. I take issue with that entity before private business in most cases. Let's also not forget that the government has effectively stolen a large portion of the additional wealth/productivity ge…

>74% voted the union out. It was glorious.

http://www.industryweek.com/sites/industryweek.com/files/upl...

Take a close look at what you are cheerleading: Crushing student debt. Opioid abuse. Medical bankruptcy. Social immobility. Poverty.

No, really.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#459

Post by AnimalMuppet »

monocasa wrote: post #446
AnimalMuppet wrote: post #276

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can someone who smoked a joint 30 minutes ago? Can someone who smoked a joint a couple days ago be trusted not to smoke one 30 minutes before starting work with the concrete cutters? Trusted enough to bet your company on? (Because you know that if the worker smokes a joint just before working with the concrete cutters, and someone gets injured or killed, the owner loses the company in the lawsuit.)

> Can someone who drank a beer a couple days ago be trusted not to drink one 30 minutes before starting work with the concrete cutters? Trusted enough to bet your company on? (Because you know that if the worker drinks a beer just before working with the concrete cutters, and someone gets injured or killed, the owner loses the company in the lawsuit.)

OK, fair point.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#460

Post by linkregister »

Retric wrote: post #358
linkregister wrote: post #349

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Which Clarence can you get without a drug test?

I know you can get a Secret and I have heard you can get a Top Secret depending on the agency. Though some agencies give random drug tests to people with Top Secret clearances and many contractors also have their own testing policy. They do however ask about drug usage both on the application and when doing their investigation.

Which agencies don't require a drug test for a Secret clearance?
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