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Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

economist.com

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Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#321

Post by solipsism »

killjoywashere wrote: post #83
logfromblammo wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Why not just give an automated field-sobriety test for alertness, judgment, and reflexes at the start of each shift? Pass the test, and you can clock in and get to work. Fail the test, hit the nap room (unpaid) for a while, and try again when you wake up. It would catch people who are drunk, high, having a stroke, or just sleepy, rather than just the guy who used cannabis two weekends ago and is perfectly capable of…

> Why not just give an automated field-sobriety test Because they are famous for low specificity and low sensitivity.

Low specificity and low sensitivity regarding whether drugs were ingested. This is not the same as measuring capability to work safely.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#322

Post by amriksohata »

thrillgore wrote: post #170
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Right, and as fewer people go into middle class jobs, demand for those workers will increase and will lead to increased wages. This is what inflation is. It's all a function of supply and demand.

It'll be either an increase in wages, or increase in visas for that kind of labor from overseas.

Or worse the businesses decide to open shop abroad the jobs disappear from the local market

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#323

Post by vorotato »

SamReidHughes wrote: post #142
watwut wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Drug test measure whether you smoked weed anytime last weeks, up to three months if I recall right. It has little to do with whether you are high first day on the job. It has more to do with drug war then with incidents.

If you can't pass a drug test it's a sign you can't get your shit together, abstain from weed, and pass a drug test.

If you can't abstain from sex for 30 days it's a sign that you can't get your shit together, abstain from sex and pass a sex test.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#324

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

amriksohata wrote: post #322
thrillgore wrote: post #170

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be either an increase in wages, or increase in visas for that kind of labor from overseas.

Or worse the businesses decide to open shop abroad the jobs disappear from the local market

Hence the growing disdain for globalization. It's a race to the bottom to see what country will provide the lowest wages and quality of life for its workers.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#325

Post by TheAdamAndChe »

DavidWoof wrote: post #103
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The younger crowd seems to be largely detached from the idea of responsibility that was drilled into previous generations. My father graduated college making $42k/yr. Inflation adjusted, that was about $60k/yr in today's dollars. I just graduated, have experience in the field, and am getting a salary of $35k/yr in today's dollars. Meanwhile, upper management is getting millions. In that kind of work environment, wh…

I'm always kind of fascinated by posts like this on this site. Could I ask what field you're in that pays 35k/yr, apparently in the US, is in the field of your degree, and yet is somewhat related to Hacker News? Or are you not in tech at all and this site is an outside interest? Or maybe you're just in a rural area? I don't mean this to sound challenging out all, I'm just kind of curious.

I work IT in Springfield, MO. Most lower level positions here have been outsourced or centralized to a tech hub of the country, so to get an "entry level" position requires a four year degree plus a year or two of experience. IT contracting jobs also just pay $10-12/hr here.

> Or maybe you're just in a rural area?

It's rural compared to the big coastal cities, but is still the third biggest city in my state. IMO, it shouldn't just be giant cities that experience economic growth, it should be everyone. The fact that this hasn't been the case in my area leaves me and many in my area bitter about the state of the economy.

Relocation isn't an option. My family lives here, my wife's family lives here, she has a career started here, and we can't afford the massive amount of instability that a move to a high COL area would bring.

Feel free to ask more questions. The more that rich people hear from folks like me, the more they'll understand the current political climate.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#326

Post by skrause »

brandonmenc wrote: post #296
lostlogin wrote: post #250

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober, and not hungover what business is it of the employers what the employee does on their own time? The drugs that are readily detectable are mostly the ones that don’t matter too, while the ones that are more concerning (to me anyway) are either not tested for or are not detectable fairly fast. And alcohol is ok to abuse. Why? It would…

> I hate the drug testing bs. How is that relevant? If the worker is present, is sober Have you ever seen a lathe accident, for example? You can't spot test for being high on marijuana or pills like you can for drunkenness, so you rely on the urine test to keep everyone on the floor safe from being crushed in a press by a stoned co-worker (or themselves.)

Here in Germany it's illegal to drug test your employees and yet there are less fatal injuries at work compared to the US (https://sites.google.com/site/ryoichihoriguchi/home/occupati...).

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#327

Post by harrumph »

turc1656 wrote: post #168
TheAdamAndChe wrote: post #68

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> The younger crowd seems to be largely detached from the idea of responsibility that was drilled into previous generations. My father graduated college making $42k/yr. Inflation adjusted, that was about $60k/yr in today's dollars. I just graduated, have experience in the field, and am getting a salary of $35k/yr in today's dollars. Meanwhile, upper management is getting millions. In that kind of work environment, wh…

I'm not sure how someone can just graduate and yet have meaningful experience in the field. Seems like only a very, very select few people can every really say that. Also, it's not clear if you and your father have degrees in the same field. If you do, part of it could easily be a supply/demand issue. I've heard similar stories from lawyers who enter the field and find it very difficult to get anything above 50k for…

> Guess what, a lot of people are underpaid.

> Contrary to popular belief, being a "company man" is usually still rewarded as long as you work for an employer which has basic common sense when it comes to employee compensation and morale.

It is mind-blowing that anyone could write this summary, expecting it to be generally applicable, when every study of wages shows they have stagnated since the 1970s, and at the same time every study of production through the same time shows it is through the roof.

In short, you advocate enshrining a work ethic, while pretending it's okay for ownership to totally ignore a pay ethic.

It's something akin to Stockholm Syndrome, if you ask me.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#328

Post by finishcarpenter »

giobox wrote: post #202
southphillyman wrote: post #189

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where can one go to learn these "blue collar" skills? As a recent home owner I'm learning first hand how valuable these skills are by way of my wallet. Seems like most people I meet who do these kinds of jobs were "born into it", and learned by helping a family member who was already in the industry. Are there IIT type schools which teach these kinds of things on a part time basis?

For a great many, youtube is surprisingly awesome. My normal approach to home DIY now is to watch as many youtube videos of the process I want to try as possible, then make a determination if it is something I still want professional help with or can try to do myself.

There is a inverse relationship on youtube DIY remodel videos. The better the video quality, the worse the advice and vice versa. Many of these 'experts' are more interested in video production (and possibly revenue from it) than they are knowing about actual building codes and practices.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#329

Post by golemiprague »

thanatropism wrote: post #29

This comment (not by me; the poster name isn't even visible anymore): > Illegal border crossings on the southern border are down 78% and blue collar wages are rising. Of course correlation does not equal causation, but when there are fewer available workers to hire/train and demand remains constant, wages tend to rise. was marked dead. Why? Is the illegal crossing number wrong/fake news?

So maybe the stupid deplorables were not that stupid and were actually acting in their own interest which is only fare. The pressure on wages and work places from the illegal immigration was huge and detrimental for the American working class. The people in coasts didn't care while parading some kind of moral superiority. Turned out Trump was right on the point.

Re: Blue-collar wages are surging. Can it last?

#330

Post by opportune »

mindcrime wrote: post #320
opportune wrote: post #258

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Well ok, but that's up to our votes to decide. You may vote one way and I will vote my way. If you don't want to provide for these people under these circumstances, vote for someone who will roll back welfare. The system wouldn't work if taxes were voluntary (how many people were poor before welfare when charity was the only way people got help?) so I see no moral hazard in coercing people who don't want to support t…

You may vote one way and I will vote my way. "Democracy is two wolves and a sheep voting on what to have for dinner. Liberty is a well-armed sheep contesting the outcome". I see no moral hazard in coercing people and that's the problem. Coercion is inherently immoral as it denies agency, which is the very essence of humanity. Agency / self-control is the fundamental difference between being a human being, and being a…

I used coercion because I knew that was how libertarians/other people who generally don't agree with me see it. I actually see it in the following way: the world is not a perfect free market, and in many cases letting a free market run its course results in the poor/disabled/children of bad parents needlessly being hurt or dying. I think its more just to pay to feed 20 poor people than to let 1 die due to poverty. Its not like this imposes some seriously constrained living conditions on everybody. I earn income in the highest nominal tax bracket and nobody I know making this much, including myself, is hurting because of our current system

There's also the argument that the money you own isn't truly yours. It's the product of a large amount of investment on behalf of your parents (which varies for everybody) and the government in terms of education (of you and everyone else to create an economy where you're able to perform your current job) and infrastructure, with the end result of you being able to perform your job. So its taxation is not theft because you do owe that money back to the rest of society. I think preventing hunger/homelessness is in general a good way to spend that money

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