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John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

nytimes.com

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Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#51

Post by wbl »

ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #44
Bartweiss wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It seems likely that anyone with split opinions would support Raines over Snowden; the obvious difference between the two cases is J. Edgar Hoover. Snowden exposed a mass surveillance program, some of which appears to have been illegal. Raines did likewise, but also exposed a serious campaign of harassment against activists - one prosecuted by an FBI director who was apparently viewed as beyond the control of even th…

Just making sure I understand your argument. Is the following hypothetical in line with your thinking? The important difference was if you agree with the administrations goals when they abuse power. So if Obama spies on all American's private conversations, only to stop only totally evil child pornographers... that's ok. But if future President Jeb Bush spies on all American's private conversations, in order to find…

Obama didn't do that. If Bush was going after people for political activity who weren't Russian agents your analogy would be correct.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#53

Post by zhengyi13 »

vanderZwan wrote: post #2

> The burglary, on March 8, 1971, at the F.B.I. office in an apartment building across from the county courthouse in Media, Pa., prompted a debate over whether the perpetrators were traitors who wantonly exposed official secrets or heroic whistle-blowers who preserved civil liberties. I do hope that this debate is considered thoroughly settled in favour of the whistle-blowers by now?

You'd hope so, but I distinctly remember when Deep Throat died in 2008, there were a lot of people who came out of the woodwork to re-eulogize Nixon, and specifically re-condemn Deep Throat as either someone who should have worked within the system, or even an outright traitor.

It's pretty clear from more recent history that whistleblowers are not treated well.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#54

Post by openasocket »

paulrd wrote: post #49
openasocket wrote: post #48

Earlier quoted context omitted.

To summarize, various sources have quoted wikileaks as saying "because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source". The message is actually "because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source, which the Clinton campaign is constantly slandering us with". I'll be honest, that doesn't really change my interpretation of the sentence, they already had "pro-Trump" an…

This may seem pedantic, but I think your quote of the misquote is wrong. The media have been putting the period / 'full stop' within the quotation marks (not just outside which you have above) which Caitlin Johnstone rightfully calls out as journalistic malpractice. That very few people know the actual quote is testament to the mainstream media's ability to sell a false narrative. Edit: Why the downvotes?

I seriously don't see how transposing the period and end quote characters changes the meaning of the sentence. And I don't see how removing those few words at the end changes the meaning of the sentence.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#55

Post by tomohawk »

wbl wrote: post #51
ghostbrainalpha wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just making sure I understand your argument. Is the following hypothetical in line with your thinking? The important difference was if you agree with the administrations goals when they abuse power. So if Obama spies on all American's private conversations, only to stop only totally evil child pornographers... that's ok. But if future President Jeb Bush spies on all American's private conversations, in order to find…

Obama didn't do that. If Bush was going after people for political activity who weren't Russian agents your analogy would be correct.

Obama was no saint.

https://sharylattkisson.com/2017/09/24/obama-era-surveillanc...

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#56

Post by stuffedBelly »

ImSkeptical wrote: post #25
yuchi wrote: post #17

Can someone explain this in simple-english? It’s pretty difficult to understand good-doers from evil-doers here… Edit/clarification: non native english speaker here…

Seems like in the 70's this guy, his wife, and six other people pulled off a daring robbery of an FBI office. They broke in by picking the lock, then stole a bunch of files. They relied on the people in the office being distracted by a boxing match, and they were. The burglars then went over their files, and found what seem to me to be pretty silly things, like FBI agents being instructed to create the perception tha…

This event is so comical that makes me wonder why there isn't already a movie about it.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#57

Post by wyldfire »

Bartweiss wrote: post #37
wyldfire wrote: post #10

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How do Snowden and Greenwald feel about having collaborated with Wikileaks given that they seem totally discredited by the revelation of their correspondence w/the Trump campaign?

How did Snowden work with Wikileaks? (That's an honest question.) As I understood matters, he avoided leaking to WL specifically because he didn't trust their approach to disclosure. He's had some vague contact Wikileaks since, but those connections (e.g. introduced on telepresence by Appelbaum) didn't seem to involve any kind of actual collaboration. Is there some kind of deeper collaboration between the two? If not…

I agree that I think the collaboration was limited, but from what I read they helped broker his planned escape to Latin America and later settling in Russia.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#59

Post by wyldfire »

paulrd wrote: post #39
wyldfire wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You left out the part that I find horrifying: > It is the third reason, though, WikiLeaks wrote, that “is the real kicker.” “If we publish them it will dramatically improve the perception of our impartiality,” WikiLeaks explained. “That means that the vast amount of stuff that we are publishing on Clinton will have much higher impact, because it won’t be perceived as coming from a ‘pro-Trump’ ‘pro-Russia’ source.” It…

Actually that quote is incorrect. It has been widely misquoted by the main stream media for their own propagandistic reasons. https://medium.com/@caityjohnstone/the-atlantic-commits-malp... https://twitter.com/wikileaks/status/930237935680618496

I did not know this. I agree that it was very misleading of The Atlantic to publish the quote in this fashion.

It doesn't seem to fully reverse my opinion of WikiLeaks although I wonder if I can really be objective now.

Re: John Raines, 84, Who Evaded Capture in an FBI Break-In, Dies

#60

Post by paulrd »

openasocket wrote: post #54
paulrd wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This may seem pedantic, but I think your quote of the misquote is wrong. The media have been putting the period / 'full stop' within the quotation marks (not just outside which you have above) which Caitlin Johnstone rightfully calls out as journalistic malpractice. That very few people know the actual quote is testament to the mainstream media's ability to sell a false narrative. Edit: Why the downvotes?

I seriously don't see how transposing the period and end quote characters changes the meaning of the sentence. And I don't see how removing those few words at the end changes the meaning of the sentence.

Fair enough. You may not see the difference, but one is false and the other is true. My point is that many would disagree with your assessment if only they knew that there was a misquote to begin with. Many who want to put forth a false narrative use these kind of disinformation tactics. If only the mainstream media did not have to resort to such slimy tactics. Wikileaks has a far better record of journalistic integrity. You can rely on a quote as being true at least. How many false stories have been printed by Wikileaks as opposed to the Atlantic? How many retractions?
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